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I've been here for a while, moderating the old and the new forums, helping set this one up even, and have seen a variety of highly negative attitudes and the likes that I'd like to discuss.

A prime example is this thread, with the previously split replies here. The posts contained in the thread were all very negative and dismissive of hypermodder's idea, which truthfully wasn't/isn't very well planned out. Instead of suggestion revision you immediately begin to blabber down his idea, instead of suggesting fixes, rules and the likes that could be added to make it more specific and less broken.
I mean okay, sure it's a contest and the rules are rather awkwardly chosen/lacking, and there's no reward really, but it might be nice to give it a try. It's not like he's asking for custom sprites and all that sh*t, just playing around with the data changer, as far as I understood from hypermodder's posts.

Seeing as how I'm mostly being detailed and limiting my argument to this single thread, this doesn't just apply here, however I'm a bit lazy to research for more, though I'm certain there's some out there.

Another issue is the widespread elitism. Particularly the older, less-recent members exert this notion that anything below their level is unacceptable. This is actually rather understandable, and mostly relates to Data Changing, seeing how most of LF2's Data Changing has already been explored, and many people don't seem to be putting work into figuring things out, yet instead just check out documentation on it. This behaviour is even encouraged by the members, seeing as how many people ask questions in the data changing section instead of attempting to figure out a solution on their own. There's obvious exceptions to that, too, however I think it's getting to a point where new things are hard to discover. Back at 1.7 some of these discoveries would probably be ground-breaking, these days they're mostly dismissed due to already being documented. This doesn't quite apply when you add in the HEX editing discoveries and very creative data changing that YinYin and Silva display in a team, for example, but that's about it, I hardly think that many other people bother tinkering around with things that much. Silva actually told me some time that HEX editing isn't all that much work, it's just that people are too unfamiliar with the concept so nobody but him, Rammichael and maybe a handful of others actually attempt it. If there's an open field, it's certainly that. Perhaps it would be nice to encourage members to try out things on their own before checking documentation, at least once they've grappled the basics (if not figured out the basics on their own to some extent). This isn't really that bad, just maybe being a bit more open to rather smaller creations and things that might not fully impress you I'd advise. Being open to newer members raises the possibility of having a bit more of a community, seeing as how the community isn't very good at the moment; only a handful of people seem to know each other, with mostly loners fiddling around with LF2. This might seem a tad contradictive to what I was speaking of, but a bit more jointventures and teamwork might help out make this place more lively. I'm not talking about fullscale mods/versions really, either, in that sense.

..so yeah, these are the primary two things that bug me about this place and most other LF2 communities, I hope I didn't sidetrack too much in the middle somewhere, but feel free to discuss this, and bring up other points that perhaps pose a problem.

tl;dr screw you guys lol
This is kinda very true...

(sorry, I really don't have more to say)
I am afraid that this is very true, and I can tell that from both experience and knowledge despite my inactivity.

I have no other comments as Cirno has basically mentioned everything.
hm, we talked about this on MSN but I think some guys are waiting of my reaction:

Well, I agree with you in all points, but the only guys which posted here yet are (ex-)mods - no members which tell you're right, I'm gonna change my behaviour a bit...

But I myself can say I will change a bit. During the last time I noticed that I dont really act like an admin should - I'll start being more consequent in some things. Example: Nonsense is nonsense and go to disposal. Starting now... (guess wih which thread)
MH-Razen Wrote:But I myself can say I will change a bit. During the last time I noticed that I dont really act like an admin should - I'll start being more consequent in some things. Example: Nonsense is nonsense and go to disposal. Starting now... (guess wih which thread)
i can honestly say that cirno is the mod that's been realy i guess you could say "doing the most moderating."

i've noticed this too and i agree, but i think the reason why some people have been pretty mean torwards some new people is because some new people honestly did not bring a lot of good mostly spam (remember the naruto people).
MH-Razen Wrote:Well, I agree with you in all points, but the only guys which posted here yet are (ex-)mods - no members which tell you're right
ppl who arent as active because of such things i guess(?) dunno

also its something rather hard to chew on - i cant read much more than agreement and everyone knows that we dont need an agreement post from each of our 417 members (honestly you wouldnt read through the topic anymore :p) as long as the active members read and recognized it its ok
.back to what i want to say
I think its way enough if admins (especially you as i cant see the other two being active)
pay some attention to how your (super) mods act - anywhere
since their job is not only moderation, but also being role models - its a simple thing really
azikary Wrote:i can honestly say that cirno is the mod that's been realy i guess you could say "doing the most moderating."
+1
YinYin Wrote:I think its way enough if admins (especially you as i cant see the other two being active)

Well, think of changing this...
Cirno Wrote:Another issue is the widespread elitism. Particularly the older, less-recent members exert this notion that anything below their level is unacceptable.

Ever considered that these memebers (even if it includes me) are just wanting to prevent getting flamed?
I mean, just if you write what you dislike about something you are getting your A$$ flamed off... (Or at least getting a rude comment back)
If not, I could've got the definition of "flaming" or "elitism" wrong...



Great speech BTW
Lauli Wrote:
Cirno Wrote:Another issue is the widespread elitism. Particularly the older, less-recent members exert this notion that anything below their level is unacceptable.

Ever considered that these memebers (even if it includes me) are just wanting to prevent getting flamed?
I mean, just if you write what you dislike about something you are getting your A$$ flamed off... (Or at least getting a rude comment back)
If not, I could've got the definition of "flaming" or "elitism" wrong...

I don't understand your reaction whatsoever, and how you derived it from what I've stated. What I meant with that statement is that anything that isn't quite up to these people's standards just leaves them cold and unimpressed, and this is primarily found in the older group of members who have been around for a longer time. <:

Quote:Nonsense is nonsense and go to disposal. Starting now... (guess wih which thread)
This doesn't mean that you can't have fun, don't think I'm trying to get to a *STRICT STRICT* kinda thing.
And the whole rolemodel business should remain rather casual, too.
Lauli Wrote:I mean, just if you write what you dislike about something you are getting your A$$ flamed off... (Or at least getting a rude comment back)
the problem with that is that its already rude when your post only consists of what you dont like - without any mention of how to improve it properly (not to speak of some things you might like - no matter how small)

so yeah - shouldn be too hard for you to consider that sometimes
/edit: also i think you shouldn feel harmed by 'flaming' or 'rude' comments anymore ... you should be above such things/
Cirno Wrote:This doesn't mean that you can't have fun, don't think I'm trying to get to a *STRICT STRICT* kinda thing.
And the whole rolemodel business should remain rather casual, too.
to wrap it up - be a bit more positive/motivating instead of the opposite - you shouldn be here to scare members away
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