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Racism (from a moral standpoint) - MangaD - 10-04-2018
There are many variants of the definition of racism, but I will go with the one from Wikipedia which best describes the origins of the term:
Wikipedia Wrote:Racism is the belief in the superiority of one race over another, which often results in discrimination and prejudice towards people based on their race or ethnicity. As of the 2000s, the use of the term "racism" does not easily fall under a single definition.
From a biological perspective, racism appears to make sense. For instance, negroes are superior to other races when it comes to withstand the sun. All races appear to have something that they are better at (or worse at) than other races, with IQ being the most controversial in the scientific community and society due to the implications it could have.
Although, from a social perspective, racism is seen as inadmissible in public discourse. I wonder, is this wise? Should we completely ignore the biological facts of humanity and pretend that they don't exist? We live in an era where migration and miscegenation are more casual than ever, where millions of years of evolution are being undone as if they did not matter the slightest. Naturally, in due time some races will disappear (eg. red hair) as they will be overwhelmed in number and new mixed races will be formed, but this is not an environmental consequence, rather human fabrication. The same applies to the advance of medicine which allows bad genes that would naturally be disposed of by nature to artificially survive.
What are your thoughts on this?
RE: Racism (from a moral standpoint) - mfc - 10-04-2018
Facts are facts. But things start going bad when you start getting discriminated and alienated because of the way you look.
A person can have any color of skin or any type of eyelids/mouth shape/body posture while harboring the type of brain that you also do.
It might be evolutionary wired in a different way but when you start sticking labels after labels towards people because of their appearances that they had no choice of selecting them, it hurts them.
I wish anyone could choose their looks like in games but sadly that's not the case IRL. Attempting to reduce the common racism is one way to equalize things but it'll never be truly realized.
People should be judged with what they do, how they act, not by how they look or what they were born like.
RE: Racism (from a moral standpoint) - STM1993 - 10-04-2018
Genetics are a fact of life, but their effects are honestly minimal when it comes to day-to-day life, especially when you compare it to the culture.
I mean, who's going to care if you're not born with the gene that lets you remain lactose tolerant as an adult?
Even then, technology can pretty much solve any problem we have with biological defects. I mean, just as an example, no one really cares if you're shortsighted anymore, just get a prescription for glasses.
Actual gene-editing technology is a whole other can of worms, though in the context of this topic I think what we need to fear most is the possibility and implications that we'd come up with a standard genetic model and then say "Hey, this is the gold standard or genetic template that everyone should have, anyone who deviates from it is defective.".
It is just as important to note that a genetic trait isn't necessary better or worse, it could be a trade-off and it heavily depends on the context of the environment. I wouldn't expect a Siberian husky to thrive in a hot environment compared to other dog breeds but it'd certainly feel very much at home in a cold snowy climate. Sickle-cell is generally a problem, but it continues to thrive on in Africa because it grants resistance to malaria.
RE: Racism (from a moral standpoint) - MangaD - 10-06-2018
I would like to hear out more opinions, but I will quickly address some of the points brought up by @mfc and @STM1993.
(10-04-2018, 07:46 PM)mfc Wrote: things start going bad when you start getting discriminated and alienated because of the way you look. (...) when you start sticking labels after labels towards people because of their appearances that they had no choice of selecting them, it hurts them.
Why does it hurt them? I personally am Caucasian, of Iberian descent, and I absolutely do not feel offended or hurt by this - it is a fact of nature. If someone addresses me as a "white guy", I have no problem with this because it is simply stating reality. If someone calls me "human", I do not feel hurt because I had no choice in selecting my species. If someone calls me a "man", I do not feel hurt because I had no choice in selecting by sex, and so on.
What exactly do you mean by "discriminated and alienated"? The word "discrimination" can have multiple meanings:
Google Dictionary Wrote:discrimination
(noun)
1. the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex.
"victims of racial discrimination"
synonyms: prejudice, bias, bigotry, intolerance, narrow-mindedness, unfairness, inequity, favouritism, one-sidedness, partisanship; ...
2. recognition and understanding of the difference between one thing and another.
"discrimination between right and wrong"
synonyms: differentiation, distinction, telling the difference
If you mean the first definition of the term, then I agree with you that unjust or prejudicial treatment is bad. However, if we go with the second definition, why do you consider the recognition and understanding of racial / ethnical differences to be bad?
The word "alienation" can also mean multiple things...
In short, why would segregation be undesirable?
(10-04-2018, 07:46 PM)mfc Wrote: I wish anyone could choose their looks like in games but sadly that's not the case IRL. Attempting to reduce the common racism is one way to equalize things but it'll never be truly realized.
People should be judged with what they do, how they act, not by how they look or what they were born like.
I wasn't focusing so much on looks alone, but rather physical / genetic abilities. I absolutely agree with you that judging people's personalities based on aesthetic features that they have no control over is morally reprehensible (what I believe you meant here). However, when it comes to environmental adaptability, genetic compatibility and preservation of diversity, don't you think that we shouldn't be so ethnically blind?
(10-04-2018, 08:34 PM)STM1993 Wrote: I mean, who's going to care if you're not born with the gene that lets you remain lactose tolerant as an adult?
Even then, technology can pretty much solve any problem we have with biological defects. I mean, just as an example, no one really cares if you're shortsighted anymore, just get a prescription for glasses.
This is exactly my concern. I strongly disagree with the "who cares" attitude.
Milk is a great source of nutrients and being lactose intolerant is a disadvantage to your diet. Being shortsighted can be "solved" by technology but the truth is that no one wants to be dependent on a pair of glasses in order to live - which btw poses a threat to their eyes should the glasses break on their face. The more and more technology fixes our physical problems that have a genetic source, the more and more genetic defects will proliferate into future generations, creating ill generations that are totally dependent on artificial means in order to survive, which means unnecessary suffering and expenses.
(10-04-2018, 08:34 PM)STM1993 Wrote: what we need to fear most is the possibility and implications that we'd come up with a standard genetic model and then say "Hey, this is the gold standard or genetic template that everyone should have, anyone who deviates from it is defective.".
Diversity is important, which is why I brought up the racial question. However, some genes simply have no evolutionary benefits and would be discarded by nature if it weren't for our advanced civilization, such as the shortsightedness. I do agree that it is dangerous to eliminate diversity and with great power comes great responsibility (ie. gene-editing technology), but I don't see it as a bad thing if it can be properly used.
(10-04-2018, 08:34 PM)STM1993 Wrote: It is just as important to note that a genetic trait isn't necessary better or worse, it could be a trade-off and it heavily depends on the context of the environment. I wouldn't expect a Siberian husky to thrive in a hot environment compared to other dog breeds but it'd certainly feel very much at home in a cold snowy climate. Sickle-cell is generally a problem, but it continues to thrive on in Africa because it grants resistance to malaria.
Absolutely. Which is why I ask your opinion on racism.
RE: Racism (from a moral standpoint) - LutiChris - 10-07-2018
14:48-26:07 answers your question
MangaD Wrote:Diversity is important, which is why I brought up the racial question.
Diversity is a strength... For our enemies.
mfc Wrote:People should be judged with what they do, how they act, not by how they look or what they were born like.
We should factor everything in. Perhaps in a homogeneous society it may not matter as much but imagine you get a call from your 17 year old daughter and says "Dad, my car broke down in Detriot and i'm all alone and i have to walk about a mile to miranda's house. I found two different routes but i'm not sure which one to take" As your daughter describes her location you are prepared to do some high stakes parenting because you only know one fact about that town 1 route takes your daughter to a 95% black neighborhood while the other has a 95% white neighborhood. So with that given information what advice do you give to your little girl?
Anyways getting back to your whole (meritocracy/moral universalism) argument... it doesn't account for individuals who work together and apply moral particularism and have an average group iq that beats all other demographics. When playing a game you would hope everyone is playing by the rules individually but in some stages of the game the ones who work together effectively eliminate all the other players in the game. Now knowing this strategy you would think okay so the one who are very smart and work together will come out on top. So who is at the top of this hierarchy? Surely they're not evil since we're all one race. THE HUMAN RACE! But if you factored in their demographic and the history of what their ancestors have done you would notice a pattern of nepotism, child sacrificing, usury and satanic rituals. Guess which race i'm talking about that this server's home country is forbidden to question due to the sensitive history and nature of the holohoax. Think about it for a moment. And does that make me racist for pointing this subtle information out? If so ask yourself this. Is this information useful to know or do you turn a blind eye to it?
RE: Racism (from a moral standpoint) - MangaD - 10-08-2018
(10-07-2018, 10:54 PM)LutiChris Wrote: Diversity is a strength... For our enemies.
In a biological sense, diversity matters. The problem I see with multiracialism (as opposed to segregation) is when ethnic cleansing occurs, eg: by reducing the birth rate of a population and / or having mass migration and miscegenation. I don't think this is a good thing because it ignores millions of years of biological evolution.
You bring in a different problem which is more culturally directed, although it can be racial (and very often is) because people cannot come to terms with their origins and identity, and thus cannot share the same space without creating conflict. This isn't always the case though. Muslim Semites and Negroes in North Africa get along just fine.
(10-07-2018, 10:54 PM)LutiChris Wrote: 1 route takes your daughter to a 95% black neighborhood while the other has a 95% white neighborhood. So with that given information what advice do you give to your little girl?
Well, you are boiling it all down to race, so this is extremely subjective. Is the 95% white neighborhood full of drug dealers / addicts, communists and trouble makers? Is the 95% black neighborhood full of religious people who have decent values? Is your daughter white or black?
...
I know what you mean though, black neighborhoods in America tend to be more dangerous than their white counterparts. But this doesn't have to necessarily be (and isn't) a racial problem. Most black people in America simply share a bad culture.
I agree with your individual vs group argument, although this doesn't have necessarily to be a racial question. It is possible for different races to work together if they share the same culture. For instance, I believe blacks in America have more in common with white Americans than with black Muslims in North Africa.
RE: Racism (from a moral standpoint) - LutiChris - 10-08-2018
mangad Wrote:It is possible for different races to work together if they share the same culture.
I agree when we have an alien invasion (look up project blue beam) or everyone figures out what the masionic zionist jews are up to the rest of humanity will come together and combat them.
mangad Wrote:so this is extremely subjective. Is the 95% white neighborhood full of drug dealers / addicts, communists and trouble makers? Is the 95% black neighborhood full of religious people who have decent values? Is your daughter white or black?
I guess this is where u and me divide. I no longer deal with hypotheticals and just go straight for pragmatic real world examples as this is the most useful tool for my world view. While i myself am i moral nihilist i acknowledge that nothing is relatively equal when it comes to these values people hold. Whites generally do not commit serious crimes per capita at least not here in the states. If my daughter is raped theres more likely a chance she could also contract a disease from a darkey vs a whitey. If she decided not to get an abortion from the rape and her baby is black she is more likely to rely on welfare and the child will have to suffer not just with a lack of a father figure but also with the consequences of race mixing such as being very different and confused.
Race comes before religion in terms of the hierarchical structure of importance which is subjective but nontheless relevant when talking about peoples natural inclination to be with their own kind. White people tend to lack this understanding since they have low ethnocentrism compared to all other races due to their evolutionary history of being northern hunter-gatherers and formed bilateral kinships, simple household families, exogamous & monogamous marriage practices, and compationate mutual consent and affection for one another. Because of this virtue and people who exploit our generosity they seek to undermine us and use our cultural origins against us when faced with people who will not assimilate to the constitutional and libertarian ideals our forefathers have carried out here in the united states. Theres a reason why north western areas that whites have been to generally flourished when it came to advancment in technology and high culture. Sure each demographic has their own use like u said blacks are built for basketball and picking cotten. As a result of making them free they were much better in the hands of their own slave masters than themselves. Because lets face it they are grown a** children with a propensity for violence. they generally wont accept responsibility and thus lack meaning and purpose in their life. As the saying goes the devil finds work for idle hands
going back to your whole .. but ian how do we figure out the statistics of what these groups value??
well ive got a good source to look at: look up culture of critique
it explains why whites tend to go for capitalism and economic growth because by nature they are much more libertarian vs someone who is jewish who are inherently communist by nature. Look at the USSR for example 85% of the gov was made up of jews. Also blacks act like children and thus want things handed to them and why they are mostly on welfare.
clicke
plz do not think i am being overly despicable in my intentions i'm just being frank and cutting through with this lie we tell ourselves because these indoctrination centers we call schools have led us to believe this way
Sorry Bamboori and Lauli looks like i won't be seeing you guys because i don't want to be locked up by your government
RE: Racism (from a moral standpoint) - MangaD - 10-08-2018
(10-08-2018, 12:44 PM)LutiChris Wrote: I no longer deal with hypotheticals and just go straight for pragmatic real world examples as this is the most useful tool for my world view. (...) Whites generally do not commit serious crimes per capita at least not here in the states.
The problem is that we are talking about race, and only race, and you are deriving conclusions from a problem that has multiple factors. Yes, blacks commit more crime. Yes, blacks have an average lower IQ. But these problems are not 100% a race problem, they may even not be a race problem afaik. Because you have to account for culture, family background, etc. Surely you would prefer if your daughter lived in a well reputed black neighborhood than Soviet Russia. If we are talking about America and based on statistics alone, then sure the white neighborhood is much more preferable to the black one. The question is why, and you are saying that it is a purely racial factor, which I must disagree.
(10-08-2018, 12:44 PM)LutiChris Wrote: Sure each demographic has their own use like u said blacks are built for basketball and picking cotten. (...) Also blacks act like children and thus want things handed to them and why they are mostly on welfare.
Where is the scientific evidence that this is a racial problem? And even if there is evidence that their race has lower IQ on average, some blacks are still smarter than some whites, so you cannot generalize and treat people differently (eg. shut down educational opportunities) just because of their race. Now if you tell me that because of this alleged fact miscegenation and black mass migration into white countries is undesirable (as it will reduce the general population IQ), then I can agree with you.
RE: Racism (from a moral standpoint) - LutiChris - 10-08-2018
MangaD Wrote:But these problems are not 100% a race problem
haha this is the #notall fallacy.
I don't deal in absolutes i deal in practicalilty and generality. There's nothing wrong with viewing sterotypes as true on a general basis but when u do this individually ofc you'll have to factor in the differences on a case by case thing. I'm focusing on the importance from our own biological imperative as a species.. demographics is important and sure there are other factors in play but from what i can tell all of these stem from biology. Think of it like this: we have the illusion of free will but still are forced to behave according to the laws of physics and our minds are no exception to this.
![[Image: QSolVtK.jpg]](https://i.imgur.com/QSolVtK.jpg)
if one values self preservation like most species their optimal and most strategic option is to go for race
now apply this to the trolley problem when dealing with this as a nation
hint: think in triage vs utilitarianism
MangaD Wrote:Where is the scientific evidence that this is a racial problem? And even if there is evidence that their race has lower IQ on average, some blacks are still smarter than some whites
You can't make the exception the rule, sure there are exceptional blacks but per capita..... u really wanna say that and then apply that to crime or any other area in life thats important? there is utility in seeing the bigger picture and yes we acknowledge the rare gems out there but you can't base a companies decision as that will hinder your economic growth as just one example. And they are already doing this for (((diversity))) already!
look up the bell curve by Charles A. Murray and Richard Herrnstein for the scientific evidence
MangaD Wrote:so you cannot generalize and treat people differently (eg. shut down educational opportunities) just because of their race.
i like how you mentioned educational opportunities. Segregation was better for blacks. There's a reason why you have more crime in cities and it is mainly racial because blacks can't compete with the other races so they resort to crime. Elite Jews know this and is why they want us to be diverse and spread chaos
MangaD Wrote:I will go with the one from Wikipedia which best describes the origins of the term:
MangaD Wrote:I will go with the one from Wikipedia
MangaD Wrote:Wikipedia
here's another example of why not to trust wikipedia
RE: Racism (from a moral standpoint) - MangaD - 10-08-2018
(10-08-2018, 01:21 PM)LutiChris Wrote:MangaD Wrote:But these problems are not 100% a race problem
haha this is the #notall fallacy.
No, it is not a fallacy. How do you know that those problems are race-based and not culture-based? If you convert most of Africa to Islam and most terrorist attacks come from black people, are you going to blame terrorism on race?
(10-08-2018, 01:21 PM)LutiChris Wrote: demographics is important and sure there are other factors in play but from what i can tell all of these stem from biology. Think of it like this: we have the illusion of free will but still are forced to behave according to the laws of physics and our minds are no exception to this.
This is speculation, unless you provide a credible source with proof that supports your theory.
(10-08-2018, 01:21 PM)LutiChris Wrote: if one values self preservation like most species their optimal and most strategic option is to go for race
No. If my race is a bunch of criminals who endanger my life and my descendants, then I'd rather live with other races.
(10-08-2018, 01:21 PM)LutiChris Wrote: You can't make the exception the rule, sure there are exceptional blacks but per capita..... u really wanna say that and then apply that to crime or any other area in life thats important? there is utility in seeing the bigger picture and yes we acknowledge the rare gems out there but you can't base a companies decision as that will hinder your economic growth as just one example. And they are already doing this for diversity already!
It depends on what we are talking about. If I am an IT company hiring an employee, and it is scientifically proven that some races are more intelligent than others, race would still be a very small factor to consider. First would come education, experience, motivation, etc.
But if I know nothing about the person, then I could take race into consideration. Still, I must say that I'm not a fan of anarcho-capitalism where people can be neglected just because they do not meet high standards, and thus less capable people are condemned to slavery and poverty.
(10-08-2018, 01:21 PM)LutiChris Wrote: look up the bell curve by Charles A. Murray and Richard Herrnstein for the scientific evidence
This is purely blind statistics, not a study on the cause factors.
(10-08-2018, 01:21 PM)LutiChris Wrote: i like how you mentioned educational opportunities. Segregation was better for blacks. There's a reason why you have more crime in cities and it is mainly racial because blacks can't compete with the other races so they resort to crime. Elite Jews know this and is why they want us to be diverse and spread chaos
This says nothing about educational opportunities. What are you trying to say here? That because blacks generally cannot compete with the other races that we should assume from the beginning that any black child will not be able to compete and therefore it is not worth trying?
(10-08-2018, 01:21 PM)LutiChris Wrote: here's another example of why not to trust wikipedia
Was the definition of racism that I quoted here incorrect?