(01-21-2016, 07:14 PM)A-Man Wrote:  And perhaps give him a different sound than Davis's when he fires the L4 hadouken. Just record yourself and edit with Audacity.

(09-08-2016, 03:35 PM)yuseiatlas Wrote:  as i said in my quality chars thread, his fully charged hadouken is a bit overpowered, mainly because the charging time is very short, so steiner desen't spend much time nor mana charging it. also, after getting to 33% health, you could spam it all the time, and you're almost unkillable, as you could teleport away if your enemy gets too close. with this tactic, i fought against 4 julians on crazy, and killed three of them(last one had about 1/4 hp remaining) the ai uses then same tactic too, as he fights normally until he gets low on health, and then he escapes and spams level 4 hadoukens. what i suggest is increasing the time and/or mana cost of the charging, so that he doesen't spam them(again, they're as strong as julian big balls).

1. Went back to x3 hits to stun with punch, but retain x2 hits to break defense (mostly to deal with Knights).
   
2. Stats have been nerfed, but light weapon throwing is more accurate and Steiner actually jumps/dashes better than before.
   
3. Some wpoint locations have been changed, for better and for worse with regards to a certain weapon-disappear-on-edge bug.
   
4. Grab+J Upthrow and D^A Anti-Air Hadoukens have been removed; they don't add to the character.
   
5. Can no longer blink towards the air, not even from Super. Its simply way too overpowered; too mp-efficient & unavoidable regardless if you flip or not.
   
6. Can no longer use J+A to run attack. This double input method is not good with characters who potentially reach negative mana, plus run attack is pretty overpowered to be used without running.
   
7. Run Attack is slightly stronger but less movement range and can block attacks during startup. Dash Attack damage is mostly transferred to the 1st hit, 2nd hit is arest instead of vrest.
   
8. Can no longer roll from all landing frames. However, Steiner can still roll in the opposite direction(even with F6 enabled!) when landing from state 6(flipping or air hadoukens) & along z-axis.
   
9. Can blink while carrying a heavy weapon and will now blink together with grab victim. Blink D^J/DvJ no longer requires holding ^/v to use. DJA is a new no-movement more-invincibility blink.
   
10. Burst is stronger but slightly slower & costs more mana and combos into weaker shorter-ranged hadoukens. Burning Hadouken makes a return here. No more infinite Burst combos, but you can still chain them quite a bit like Woody.
    
11. Hadouken now has effectively double the initial mana cost, matching Freeze's D>A. This should make hadoukens(including charged ones) a lot less spammable. Charging system is also a lot more precise.
    
12. Charged hadoukens rebalanced; weaker in general. The new Level 4 charge can pierce multiple enemies/weapons, but a very high chance of being destroyed if punched or hit by a weak projectile or thrown weapon, very much like Freeze's icicles.
    
13. Added +A input for Level 5, which is the old Level 4 with some buffs to make it very similar to Julian's Soul Bomb. Unlike the previous charges, this one costs a LOT of mana and you NEED to have the minimum mana required and be in Level 4.
    
14. Hell Move input changed. It no longer costs HP to use, but it requires you to reach Level 4 and have full MP while less than 100hp. It should also no longer double damage from both the ball & the explosion.
    

(09-08-2016, 04:06 PM)STM1993 Wrote:  

(09-08-2016, 03:35 PM)yuseiatlas Wrote:  as i said in my quality chars thread, his fully charged hadouken is a bit overpowered, mainly because the charging time is very short, so steiner desen't spend much time nor mana charging it. also, after getting to 33% health, you could spam it all the time, and you're almost unkillable, as you could teleport away if your enemy gets too close. with this tactic, i fought against 4 julians on crazy, and killed three of them(last one had about 1/4 hp remaining) the ai uses then same tactic too, as he fights normally until he gets low on health, and then he escapes and spams level 4 hadoukens. what i suggest is increasing the time and/or mana cost of the charging, so that he doesen't spam them(again, they're as strong as julian big balls).

Noted! Thank you for the feedback!

The biggest issue with Steiner's big hadouken(which actually costs 170mp total) is the way the charging system works. It works by exploiting a trick with holding back(for hit_d) and negative MP (which is also why charging doesn't work with F6). However, using -mp also has a huge problem where if the character runs out of MP, will continue to go into the hit_d frame indefinitely.

That means Steiner will always be able to spam hadoukens as long as he has 59mp(the initial cost of D>A). And because I changed Steiner to always release once fully charged instead of allowing you to delay by holding back, he will always shoot instead of being forced to continue charging when low on MP. I did this because it felt buggy to get stuck in -mp and using hit_a to release when already fully charged doesn't work because when your MP is negative, your inputs are disabled.

I also didn't really think his fully charged D>A was overpowered because D>A's charging time is actually long enough to be easily punished in a PvP context & you can just roll/jump over it, but I suppose I got obsessed with Steiner being good at clearing stage mode mobs & dealing with enemy projectiles, plus I didn't like the idea of L4 hadouken being blockable like Henry's D>A/J or John's D^A.

Main changes I plan to make if I do get around to modding him again:
* Remove D^A and the Grab+J throw. They don't really add to the character.
* Re-add D>JJ to teleport into the air. D>JA will work as teleport+burst. Nerf the teleport invulnerability a bit.
* Make his hell move accessible from D>A (only when fully charged and you need to hit an input) instead of from DJA.
* Add separate D>A frames for comboing from DvA; otherwise his DvA (D)>A combos would cost too much MP.
* D>A overall cost more MP(initial cost 60->90) & take longer to charge(by adding a useless "buffer" frame between charge levels) once charged past L2, as suggested. L4 dmg can be a bit lower too from 70 to 60-65 maybe.

---

Stealth Changelog for v3.00 beta - 25th October 2016

Changes from v2.99:

1. Went back to x3 hits to stun with punch, but retain x2 hits to break defense (mostly to deal with Knights).
   
2. Stats have been nerfed, but light weapon throwing is more accurate and Steiner actually jumps/dashes better than before.
   
3. Some wpoint locations have been changed, for better and for worse with regards to a certain weapon-disappear-on-edge bug.
   
4. Grab+J Upthrow and D^A Anti-Air Hadoukens have been removed; they don't add to the character.
   
5. Can no longer blink towards the air, not even from Super. Its simply way too overpowered; too mp-efficient & unavoidable regardless if you flip or not.
   
6. Can no longer use J+A to run attack. This double input method is not good with characters who potentially reach negative mana, plus run attack is pretty overpowered to be used without running.
   
7. Run Attack is slightly stronger but less movement range and can block attacks during startup. Dash Attack damage is mostly transferred to the 1st hit, 2nd hit is arest instead of vrest.
   
8. Can no longer roll from all landing frames. However, Steiner can still roll in the opposite direction(even with F6 enabled!) when landing from state 6(flipping or air hadoukens) & along z-axis.
   
9. Can blink while carrying a heavy weapon and will now blink together with grab victim. Blink D^J/DvJ no longer requires holding ^/v to use. DJA is a new no-movement more-invincibility blink.
   
10. Burst is stronger but slightly slower & costs more mana and combos into weaker shorter-ranged hadoukens. Burning Hadouken makes a return here. No more infinite Burst combos, but you can still chain them quite a bit like Woody.
    
11. Hadouken now has effectively double the initial mana cost, matching Freeze's D>A. This should make hadoukens(including charged ones) a lot less spammable. Charging system is also a lot more precise.
    
12. Charged hadoukens rebalanced; weaker in general. The new Level 4 charge can pierce multiple enemies/weapons, but a very high chance of being destroyed if punched or hit by a weak projectile or thrown weapon, very much like Freeze's icicles.
    
13. Added +A input for Level 5, which is the old Level 4 with some buffs to make it very similar to Julian's Soul Bomb. Unlike the previous charges, this one costs a LOT of mana and you NEED to have the minimum mana required and be in Level 4.
    
14. Hell Move input changed. It no longer costs HP to use, but it requires you to reach Level 4 and have full MP while less than 100hp. It should also no longer double damage from both the ball & the explosion.
    

tl;dr - I nerfed him(mostly his projectile/teleport game) and reworked his data so that he feels better to use.
I'm now working on a new id AI for Steiner; I don't think he should stay using Nave's AI forever if I can make my own.

(05-05-2022, 02:57 AM)Kaizen Wrote:  the only thing I couldn't do was do the Hell Move, because I don't understand how level 4 works, but after that, it's a very good character i love it