[Version] LF2 Rebalance [LF2-RB] - Progress Thread

[STM1993]

It has been a long time. I'd like to create a proper forum thread for my project; not just a Discord channel.

This mod is far from complete, due to many delays and project restarts owing to abysmal management on my part.
I am releasing a playable beta today on 4th January 2021, even if it is mostly just original LF2, as a sign of my new approach to managing this project.


What is LF2 Rebalance [LF2-RB]?
The original LF2 is actually not very well-balanced in some aspects, whether for PvP or PvE.
In addition, the Stage Mode is repetitive/boring. It fails to bring out the best of its combo gameplay, instead favouring big Army vs Army battles.
These frustrations, along with the general lack of balanced LF2 mods, led to the development of LF2 Rebalance.

The goal of the mod is not only to address these frustrations, but to also keep the original feel of LF2.
That last point is very important.

No matter how overpowered Deep's >>JA is, how ridiculous Woody's combos are, how unfair infinites like Rudolf's are...
They are all integral to the experience of using these characters in LF2, both in the context of PvP and PvE.
New special moves & buffs to existing weak moves must not overshadow the rest of the char's kit either.
The mod should reward players for legacy skills from original LF2, while keeping things fresh.

Another important limitation is that I will avoid using EXE-dependent DC techniques.
That means practically everything about the mod also works on Original LF2 - basically a DC-only mod.
* Using a modded LF2 exe by itself, new MP Regen rate, enemies deal less damage in Stage Mode - these are okay.
* Using EXE to fix specific bugs & improve QOL without hindering normal gameplay - also okay.
* Relying on new features in a way that cannot be done in original LF2 - NOT acceptable.
* Directly lowering Henry's D^J flute damage from EXE - NOT acceptable.
* I also will not use ddraw.dll AI for any character that appears in Stage Mode as a mandatory enemy.

Lastly, I will now always ensure that I can just launch my own mod and play it.

Previously, I tried to apply my old LF2 Demake's project methods of planning everything out perfectly and then creating everything from scratch. This method does not work for a project whose scope is to be an extension of the original LF2 rather than a full re-creation. I overthought everything to perfection and was never able to play out my own mod, making me lose sight of the goal and change my mind multiple times, causing me to lose motivation.

If I can't have fun playing my own mod, I would never be able to finish this mod.


Media:

Here's a long GIF showing Davis, Henry, Julian, Firen, Dennis.

Beta Download(04-Jan-2021):
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qdBbIDB...tUaKtjIw1r
Hotfix: Bandit picked_caught wasn't changed correctly, John D^J sprites, etc_mirror.

Notable Changes so Far:
Many ideas were tried and scrapped, as I gradually got better at playing, understanding and modding LF2 over the years.
EXE:
* lf2.exe modded by @Leaf.F himself!
* x3 faster loading speed, better F2 pause, "skin" folder.
* Some new features. Fixed an F6 bug. Ik8 no longer overwrites(that means ik8 injury0 will not cancel healing).
* Take only 80% damage from enemies in Stage Mode.
* MP Regen Rate changed from 1-5mp/3tu at 500/400/300/200/100hp, to 2-4mp/3tu at 565/365/165hp.

Data(Main Points): (Click to View)

* New data and spritesheet format.
* Some subtle tweaks to hitboxes; I'll be implementing more hidden bdy/itr as I go along.
* Stage 1 Prototype + a placeholder Stage 2,3,4,5,Survival for testing purposes.
* Added RatioAdder so players can further adjust their preferred difficulty.
* Added Steiner v4.00 Beta, converted for this mod's data format.
* Template has taken steroids and is now physically as strong as the 10 fighters. Still no special moves though.
* Everyone's damage has been adjusted quite roughly around the 70hp value. >>A is generally vrest now.
* All chars can cancel drinking with J, some changes to Frozen mechanic. Grab+Throw no longer faces backwards by default.
* All chars can change direction while grabbing, and duration has been adjusted.
* All chars can escape Dennis's Grab+D>J infinite now, but the AI will probably never know how to do it.
* All chars can escape Julian's D^J wallbang infinite by adding a state14 blink that only triggers if you flip from too high in the sky.
* Julian's D>J/D^J no longer instantly destroy milk/beer/baseball.
* Firen can now use ALL his combos on Julian/Knight due to standardizing their burning hitboxes!
* Firen is less likely to get self-burned when using D>A. Groundfire punch combo is a bit easier to do + bugfix.
* Fixed Freeze's inconsistent punch speed (use the slower one).
* Energy Balls that get converted by Iceball are now weaker. (conversion by melee attacks/icesword is unaffected)
* Hunter has been nerfed in many areas. Notably, his arrows cannot juggle and his z-axis aim is 2 instead of 2.5.
* Henry's flute has been nerfed greatly and uses the old 1.7 sound.
* Henry & Hunter will no longer throw weapons during Grab+Throw; this was a very stupid bug with no gameplay benefit.
* Rudolf now has z-axis movement during >>D and D>J. super & >>A can no longer be punished from flip.
* Louis gets a faster punch and some buffs/bugfixes to >>A/>>JA/D^J/D>A.
* Davis has a new DJA move, some adjustments to super/DvA/D^JA, D^A has an added leap-like bdy.
* Dennis >>A+DvA is now much more potent against armored enemies.
* Woody's D^A is weaker and D>J only hits once + blockable. >>AA is improved. Fixed teleport input. DvA can be used from >>,>>A(A),teleport.
* Deep's D>A sword fall25->1. The ball also starts with state12 for 1tu, making it slightly better against Davis/Dennis D>A ballspam.
* Rudolf's shurikens have proper throwing sounds.
* All chars except Knight have bpoint in all frames, not just standing/walking!

^ This is quite a long list even for a beta.

---

This section below may be rather short on info, but there's way more than what I wrote here.

Credits (Click to View)

* TheHari - sprites
* Leaf.F - EXE edit & data advice
* Luigi - Easier Data Editor
* Fonix - many things, but especially LF2 gameplay
* Nyamaiku - advice & sprites
* luminance - advice & sprites
* Leviaiz - advice
* Razen - font used for some text
* YinYin - early DC knowledge & his VDC editor.
* Ramond - early testing from the irc days
* zort - the Cheat Engine address list is massively helpful for gather data & testing!

And everyone else who has helped on Discord.

Planned Changes (Click to View)

* Fully implement the new injury/falling-related hitboxes.
* Implement the new standardized hitboxes on all chars.
* New weapon on_hand frames, and make weapons able to hit falling enemies.
* Revive System + DeathCheck(to prevent bugs).
* Add a new "Sword" weapon that can be dropped from F8.
* Template: add DJA transform, D>JA weapon steal, DvJ/HJ transmute system, D^J re-roll f8 weapon.
* Deep: add DJA sprint, and D^A alternate input for DvA.
* John: add D^AA non-homing disc, decide on a new DJA move.
* Henry: add DvJ summon arrow weapon.
* Rudolf: nerf DJA by adding hidden bdy for John's D>J to hit(combo escape exploit fix).
* Louis: remake D^J and DJA(new LouisAM; hero version of EX). add DvJ armor buff move. various balance tweaks.
* Firen: add DJA summon flame sword. adjust D^J. remake D>J for new groundfire system.
* Freeze: add DJA summon ice sword (for others).
* Dennis: add DJA ik3 move.
* Woody: add DJA non-moving teleport(just like using DvJ without any allies).
* New Minions & Mid-Bosses for Stage Mode via WpnMinion system - you can see this already done with FlyingKicker & BossMark.
* Implement a full AI manipulation system.
* Fix Julian's mirror image bugs.
* Design a new stage mode.
* Add b_sprites for all characters(data is done, just need sprites).

...and probably more.

---

Scrapped Ideas (Click to View)

• Every LF2 char(i.e. including soldiers & bosses) having a Hero version, plus a few completely new Heroes.
  There are so many problems with this idea, I can't believe I tried sticking to it as long as I did.
  * More than 19 new heroes. This is a massive strain on LF2's memory resources.
  * It will be a nightmare to select characters. This is not fixable even with 'lf2.net' cheat related tweaks to EXE.
  * I am caught in-between making an existing char into something new, yet still feeling like the original char as a Hero.
  * Many of the proposed ideas ultimately do not meet my balance standards, or are just copies/variations of the existing original 10 heroes.
  
• Standardized Hitboxes - based on average of original hitboxes.
  * Requires a lot of unnecessary data mining & re-calculations.
  * The characters don't match up, especially taking into account centering.
  * Standardized hitboxes help keep the game consistent, but this is not the way to go about it.
  * I'll use a simplified model instead based on a few key "states" (eg: merge stand/defend/drink into one bdy type instead of having a unique one for each).
  
• Being a Base LF2 mod for others to mod from.
  * There is no easy way to make sprites unlike the old LF2 Demake project.
  * The work required to make a nice template is too much & unnecessary, and doesn't fit all angles.
  * This is a mod version with its own self-contained system. It will never be compatible with other downloads.
  

[The_Hari]

Yay! Good thing you scrapped a bunch of the old stuff, the sprites I made for new moves really weren't good at all. I think so far weapon minions are my favourite thing in here, as much as I despise fighting againts flying kicker, boss Mark, yet with his new sprites, is brilliant. I think left (his right) arm could use more shadow. Any reason there is no b sprites for criminals?
I'm hoping to see an update with all new moves mentioned in the post soon, before going for stuff like revive and "AI manipulation system", which whatever it might be, sounds cool.

[STM1993]

Current Guideline; last updated 9 August 2022.

General
* EXE gets some improvements.
* MP regen rate tightened to 2 to 4mp/3tu per 200hp from 563hp. (previously 1 to 5 per 100 from 500hp)
* EnemyHP are now in intervals of 50->52. (except id1000 heroes, remain at 250)
* AI will now block >>JA. (done by adding state 3000 to dash attack).
* Mitigate infinite combo exploits. (add ways to escape / deal 0 damage to extend stun)
* Rebalance characters.
* Heroes receive +1 new move.

Heroes (Click to View)

0 Template
(+) Well-rounded Basics.
(-) No special moves (except DJA).
(!) Intended for Stage; inherently unfair for PvP.
(!) Probably a rule for "No Transforming" or "No changing back".
---
* Buffed to HeroLvl stats.
* Basics +AOE(a%v-1 or vrest)
* [DJA: Transform] direct ik3, (>) to dash forward.
* HasMemory. HeroMinion/Boss, but not fakeHero.


1 Deep
(+) Punish/Counter on Reaction.
(-) Unreliable combos & slow movement.
(!) Great in Stage, player-dependent in PvP.
(!) May have trouble with Henry and Davis.
---
* TransferDamage (Punch -> Special Moves)
* WalkZ->(2.5)
* ThrowKick.
* Consistent Punch animation & ar7v-1 (no longer guaranteed stun if walk-in late).
* D^J +1tu startup from stand/walk (prevent leap escape from 3/4 punchers).
* [DJA: Sprint; ik1+st16, noWpn]; mp75+@. +A=DvA, +J=D^J, +D=roll. [no double-charge of MP]


2 John
(+) Well-rounded(Defensive).
(-) Lacks AOE crowd control.
(!) Horrible in Stage, excellent in 1v1.
(!) Unfair Rudolf(DJA) escape. Completely destroys Louis.
(!) PvP rules for D^A & Heal.
---
* global: D>A reboundDownward bugfix.
* Basics +AOE(a%v-1 or vrest)
* ThrowKick.
* SP -> unblockable.
* D^A +mp/dmg.
* [D^AA] non-homing variant(refund some MP).
* [DvA] short but durable variant.
* D>J hidden itr vs RudolfDJA & catchFalling.
* No Shield Stacking(max x2; 1 D>J, 1 DvA).
* [D^J>] to shoot healball at long range(can also aim^/v even without >).
* Heal -mp & -heal.
* [DJA: Transmute]; team support skill & improve weaponUse.


4 Henry
(+) Runaway & ArrowSpam.
(-) Vulnerable CQC, no DefendEscape.
(!) OP in Stage. Hard to use in 1v1.
(!) Extremely draggy 5-5 fights vs Louis.
(!) PvP Rules for D^J.
---
* global: HeavyWpns +vrest -dmg (less Flute damage).
* ThrowKick.
* D^J nerf(everything), consistent maxHeight.
* Arrows +AI_dodge, bdef16->18.
* D>J -mp/+dmg, +AI_dodge/defend, vrest->17(no more x2 from midair).
* Fix DJA injurybounce problem & OP wallJuggle.
* Improve CQC.
* Nerf weaponThrow animation speed to Standard.
* Fix >>J<A wpnShield, and throw_lying_man wpnThrow bug.
* [DvJ: Summon Arrow]


5 Rudolf
(+) Feint & Stun for big damage.
(-) Vulnerable CQC & trouble initiating.
(!) Strong in Stage due to >>JA, player-dependent in PvP (unless abuse D>A).
(!) Bad matchups vs Dennis & Deep.
(!) PvP Rules for D^J/DvJ, D>A.
---
* ExtendStun = 0dmg.
* +bonusDmg vs Stunned enemies.
* A +aimZ/0mp, but start behind on x-axis.
* Nerf D>A (esp injuryBounce & clones).
* >>D +dvz.
* D>J -1tu startup (allow leap escape from Non-3/4 punchers)
* Fix flipping problem(super/>>A).
* Prevent DJA escape vs John D>J.
* DvJ de-sync clones(no copying DJA/D^J).
* DJA -> HeroLvl + fakeRudolf/Firen/Freeze.
* WRA: add hit_xx, state0->1.
* [D^A: Cancel] same as DJA(noTrans) for Defend frames.
* [DvA: Iaido] close range version of D>J. Can be charged up by holding (<).


6 Louis
(+) Intimidate/Counter with Armor.
(-) Slow attack startup. Suffers from a LOT of bugs.
(!) Severe matchup problems in both Stage & PvP.
(!) Especially bad vs John/Firen/Freeze, Julian/Firzen.
(!) PvP Rules for DJA.
---
* Fix bugs: thunderMP, rest7, groundWDA.
* Punch->(4/4), +dmg, a%v-1, +otherBuffs.
* SP/JA +armor.
* >>A/>>JA +st3000 (albeit flawed) & other tweaks.
* D>J fixGaps via shrafe(tech).
* D^J +bonusDmg on direct grab, catch Falling, & other tweaks.
* D^J double-grab[ik3+ck0]+[ik3+ck1] & other bugfixes.
* D>A faster & stronger.
* [DJA]=HeroLEX; workaround for unfixably bad matchups.
* [DJA+DJA] still gives ogBossLouisEX via MP_Regen.
* [DvJ: ArmorUp] HP-locked; buffs bdefend to -30.
HeroLEX
* Not sure of specifics yet.
* Primarily to alleviate bad matchup vs John,Firen,Freeze.
* May alleviate overly draggy matchups vs Henry/Rudolf.
* Assume that player will eat 1 combo after transforming at start of PvP match.
* May take inspiration from Deep & Dennis.
* Must feel nice to use in Stage vs Louis.
* Can transform back to normal Louis.
* >>A to behave like a hybrid of Louis/Davis; x2 hit on block/back, but not on front.
* >>JA has shorter range(but not too much) to slightly alleviate state3000 AI detection range.
* D>A maximum x2 hits.
* DvA less useful via "nutcrack" and 50-50 last hit via "(<)delay".


7 Firen
(+) Keepaway Zoning / stun for big combos.
(-) MP Expensive / Hard to Initiate.
(!) OP in Stage, Good in PvP; but hard to use correctly.
(!) Bad matchup vs Dennis. Completely destroys Louis.
---
* ThrowKick.
* global: Firen/Freeze's id frames are changed to accommodate Firzen.
* global: nerf_FireIceJuggle, burnDmg->12
* Revamp grdfire. -comboDmg.
* "Helicopter" bugfix.
* D>A max[x6->3]. dmg(+non-burn)/(-burning).
* DvJ +st7, -dmg(defend).
* >>A +st19 (for DvJ+>>A).
* D^J +antiArmor, hpcost->0.
* [DJA: Sword] +range(vsDennis). Works w/grdfire. [Swing=ie1, other=Burn].
* WJA/WRA/WDA +state19 to prevent self-burn.


8 Freeze
(+) OneTouch and then Combo.
(-) MP-Dependent, Spells can backfire easily.
(!) Both Stage & PvP: good yet beginner-friendly.
(!) Slight advantage vs Davis. Completely destroys Louis.
---
* global: Firen/Freeze's id frames are changed to accommodate Firzen.
* global: nerf_FireIceJuggle.
* global: DvJ throw = shatter if successfully freeze (anti-infinite).
* Fix inconsistent punch(3/4).
* Standardize iceDmg(35/45); convert27,ww63.
* SpecialStandingFrame: D>A hit falling 1tu (for TemplateDJA).
* DvJ nerf some vrest to [a%v-1], thaws burning(ie0~1).
* [DJA: IceSword(Other)]


9 Dennis
(+) Harass_Pressure / initiate stun for big combo.
(-) Slow recovery & lacks AOE knockdown.
(!) Unreliable in Stage, but deadly in PvP.
(!) Tends to counter Firen.
(!) PvP Rules mainly for D^A and (G)D>J.
---
* D^A nerf to homing & mp. +bonusDmg vs Minions?
* D>A fix MP oversight.
* Melee -dmg for combos to fit within 250hp range.
* >>A +[vr/a%v-1].
* D>J +bdy/-itr; better for Stage but worse vs Air.
* [DJA: Galeforce] ik3 with throw property.


10 Woody
(+) Well-rounded(Aggressive).
(-) Somewhat slow special move startup/recovery.
(!) BossDPS for Stage, excellent in PvP.
(!) PvP Rules for NOT using D>J after D^A+>JA / D>A+>>JA.
---
* Melee -dmg.
* >>JA [+a%v-1] to allow D^A>JA to hit crowds.
* D>J longer maxDmg duration, but blockable.
* Improved DvA / >>AA.
* Teleport bugfix & chain into DvA.
* [DJA: Teleport] inPlace(st100); same as DvJ(noAlly).


11 Davis
(+) Rushdown with Punch / sliding D>A.
(-) Quite predictable.
(!) Average in Stage, very strong in PvP.
(!) Has a bit of trouble vs Freeze, some advantage vs Deep.
(!) PvP rules for D^A.
---
* ThrowKick.
* global: Add escape loophole for (G)D>J via injury224(back) state6.
* TransferDamage (DvA -> D^JA)
* D^A invincibility for full itr(Exception: Punch & some Attacks), -dmg.
* D>A -dmg.
* DvA -gap(last hit still blockable).
* D^JA a%v-1 tech.
* D^J +1tu startup from stand/walk (use D^A for leap escape from 3/4 punchers instead).
* >>A(x2) / >>AA(x1) / >>A+<(x0).
* [DJA: FocusPunch] lowMP antiarmor fall70.

Bosses (Click to View)

52 Julian
(+) Armored Tank, +MP_Regen.
(-) Big Size. Ratio(x3)
(!) Just don't ever use D^J.
* global: Wall+D^J no longer an infinite (flippable).
* -dmg & +mp in general.
* D>A anti-infinite(0). Bugfix fall60.
* D>J no longer punishes flipping.


51 Firzen
(+) Glass Cannon, +MP_Regen.
(-) Spells are slow & indirect. Ratio(x2)
(!) Actually weaker than Firen+Freeze individually.
* global: Firen/Freeze's id frames are changed to accommodate Firzen.
* global: nerf_FireIceJuggle.
* -dmg in general.
* D^A state->1002 (AI no longer attempts to block it).
* D>J state3000(head)+1002(tail).
* D^J a lot of hidden extra nerfs.


50 LouisEX
(+) Superb Physical Stats.
(-) Combos have exploitable flaws.
(!) PvP Rules are varied for Transform.
* +AI block/dodge in general.
* Adjust >> bdef/vrest to allow anti-armor & fix stopRun+Stab bug.
* D>A -dmg?
* DvA adjust?


38 Bat
(+) Strong Basics.
(-) Weak to itr effect 4, easily avoided specials (except D^J).
(!) One Trick Pony; D>A for Stage, D^J for PvP.
* D^J state->1002 (AI no longer attempts to block it).
* D^J bidirectional block & fix vrest(close D^J) bug.
* D>A injurybounce fix.
* Revamp D>J?
* Properly implement (G)DvA.
HeroBat
* Not sure, just putting this option on the table.

Minions (Click to View)

30 Bandit:
(+) Fodder(melee): Cute mascot.
(-) ?
(!) 52/70/105hp
(!) ?
* ?
HeroBandit
* ?


31 Hunter:
(+) Fodder(range): Runaway & Shoot.
(-) ?
(!) 52/70/105hp
(!) ?
* ?
HeroHunter
*


32 Mark
(+) Tank: Minotaur.
(-) ?
(!) 157/210/315hp
(!) ?
* ?
HeroMark
*


33 Jack
(+) Fighter: AntiAir+Ball
(-) ?
(!) 105/140/210hp
(!) ?
* ?
HeroJack
*


34 Sorcerer
(+) Caster: Fire/Ice/Heal.
(-) ?
(!) 105/140/210hp
(!) ?
* ?
HeroSorc
*


35 Monk
(+) Tank: 3005 palm.
(-) ?
(!) 157/210/315hp
(!) ?
* ?
HeroMonk
*


36 Jan
(+) Caster: Heal/Homing.
(-) ?
(!) 210/280/420hp
(!) ?
* ?
HeroJan
*


37 Knight
(+) Tank: MetalArmor.
(-) ?
(!) 157/210/315hp
(!) ?
* ?


39 Justin
(+) Fighter: Bodyguard.
(-) ?
(!) 105/140/210hp
(!) ?
* ?
HeroJustin
*

[STM1993]

Old Post (Click to View)

Yay! Good thing you scrapped a bunch of the old stuff, the sprites I made for new moves really weren't good at all. I think so far weapon minions are my favourite thing in here, as much as I despise fighting againts flying kicker, boss Mark, yet with his new sprites, is brilliant. I think left (his right) arm could use more shadow. Any reason there is no b sprites for criminals?
I'm hoping to see an update with all new moves mentioned in the post soon, before going for stuff like revive and "AI manipulation system", which whatever it might be, sounds cool.

I actually kept them and are waiting to use some of them XD. Nyamaiku made the arms for BossMark.

Criminals don't have b_sprites at the moment, because I do have some new moves for some chars that simply do not have a b_sprite equivalent. I don't want to waste further time copy pasting them onto the new spritesheets when its much more efficient to just edit a whole spritesheet's colour palette at the later date when the sprites are actually finalized.

The updates are not in order, but yes I'll be prioritizing hitboxes(to ensure combos are consistent) followed by new moves. Revive system will come later since its more relevant for multiplayer and quite annoying to implement. AI Manipulation is actually just playing around with state 3 and spawning invisible balls to manipulate the AI's behaviour(and unfortunately my options on DC side are limited), but again can be done later when the moves are finalized.


WpnMinion is a concept I'm proud of, though it has evolved a bit and the name is now a bit wrong.
The LF2 AI loves picking up weapons, and is easily lured by it to their deaths. Seeing this, I wanted to nerf this strategy rather than completely nullify it. How do I make only selected enemies immune to weapon luring? Give them a weapon.
With that, along with knowing that LF2 AI has hardcoded behaviour based on the id of the weapon they have on hand, I wanted to create a replica of the original minions, hence WpnMinions.

Well, turns out these DC-based replicas are not to my satisfaction:
* The WpnAI cannot imitate original LF2 soldiers closely enough(eg: WpnHunter doesn't know how to run away).
* They are often either too strong or too weak, with no middle ground.
* Many of these WpnAI can be beaten in the exact same way as any normal LF2 AI.
* I don't have the sprites, and mere palette swaps do not make a unique enemy.
* What if players choose or Rudolf transforms into this enemy? It'd feel absolutely wrong in human hands.

The original LF2 minions are also generally good enough and numerous enough in variety on their own; you can mostly split them(ignoring Bandit/Hunter) among the 4 LF2 bosses thematically:
* Julian + Knight
* Firzen + Sorcerer
* LouisEX + Monk
* Bat + Justin
That leaves out Jack, Mark, Jan. I probably only need like 2-3 additional minions to complete the set.

The last thing is that I want WpnMinions to be able to teach or enforce actual LF2 skills. Things like:
* >>JA; exactly how useful it is and how to defend against it
* How to deal with broken_defend situations
* How to punish those who flip out of combos

So going in that direction, I think most WpnMinions will actually end up being unique Midbosses rather than common soldiers, and I must have been over-fixated on nerfing the weapon lure strategy.

I decided to do a writeup to help gather my thoughts on what I want to do.
Will be busy as more stuff start to pile up in real life and I don't want to lose sight of my goals again.

General
* Most chars' >>JA will be nerfed from 70 to 69dmg; this is to prevent 1-shotting bandits in Normal/Difficult.
* Most chars' JA is useless and deals too little damage, though AI does not know how to defend against it.
* Buff most chars' >>A to be vrest, have >= damage vs >>JA (or at least have utility like Dennis stun).
* Weapons are excellent for throwing, but I feel AI should be able to better defend against it.
* Weapon swinging is mediocre(except ice sword). Its only real value is providing vrest attacks(esp >>JA).
* Heavy Weapons are great in Easy/Normal, but useless in Difficult/Crazy due to teamchange & projectiles.
* Heavy Weapons are also actually really broken when paired with certain vrest attacks for combos(eg: flute).
* I want to reduce the id1000 heroes' MP from 500 to maybe 200 when they initially spawn in Stage. This can be done with DC and is customizable.

0. Template
* I like the concept of picking a character with no special moves, and winning with only basic moves.
* I also like how Template doesn't have to worry about accidentally doing D>A after block + turn + punch.
* However, Template is too weak; I'm buffing his stats to be on par with the average Hero.
* Story-wise, Template is a homunculus made from alchemy, and can take the form of others.
* That means he gets Rudolf's DJA Transform, but he can directly grab instead of needing to stun first.
* Transform is inherently unfair/unbalanced in PvP; so he'll remain unselectable by "Random".
* I do wonder if having only 1 move is too plain though, and I don't want some of my old HeroMinion ideas to go to waste, like "Weapon Steal", "Transmute", "Re-Roll F8 Weapon", "Timelock"...

1. Deep
* Godly in Stage Mode, but unreliable in PvP.
* Deep has trouble starting big combos, and even those are hard to do AND easily flippable.
* This forces Deep to play in a reactionary manner, greatly limiting his otherwise insane damage potential.
* I'm buffing his D>A to be much more effective for this playstyle since Deep isn't good at combo rushdown.
* D>A also gets a brief moment of state12 so that it can deal with Davis's D>A spam.
* AA D>AA(A) is a 100% safe 250hp/225mp combo. I'm making it easier to do.
* AA DvA(DvA)JA is the stronger combo, but is less safe.
* AA (G)Ax5 D>J nerfed as it does too much damage for too little MP; encourage the above 2 combos instead.
* His DJA shall be a -mp overtime Sprint(ik1+wpnSt16 tech; cannot hold weapons) as a small mobility boost.
* Also improved his walk from 2.3 to 2.5.

2. John
* Very honest & balanced in PvP(mostly 5-5), but extremely bad in Stage mode.
* D>J should be a bit easier to use for combos, and fix the Rudolf DJA escape exploit.
* The big problem: I want to buff his AOE for PvE, but in a way that does not buff his PvP.
* I'm giving him D^AA (Non-Homing Disc, refund 50mp, slowly accelerates & dmg50->70 overtime).
* However, this is still too expensive; John needs a low-mp option for attacking big groups.
* Considered vrest >>JA, but I think that's too much now. Maybe retain 70dmg(1-hit bandits) is good enough.
* I've been thinking his DJA should be a Weapon ability, but throwing weapons is kinda overpowered.

Instead of making weapons, maybe Transmute a weapon currently on hand to something else? Combine with D>J to stop AI from picking up weapons so that he can use them himself. This also kinda solves my concern about giving John vrest >>JA directly since this still needs him to pick up a weapon. Will also need to allow Milk to be transmuted into a weapon(important for Survival where you can't get any weapon drops due to the accumulation of milks), but not in a way that refreshes the contents of the milk.

4. Henry
* Hard to use in 1v1(PvP) but strong in team fights & Stage Mode.
* Nerfed D^J's duration/damage, startup time, and slowed down MP Regen Rate while flute is active.
* D>J is OP vs AI, but dmg is too low for PvP. Buff dmg but make AI able to react(block/avoid?) to it proper.
* New DvJ(Summon Arrow as Weapon) to mitigate his awful CQC without giving him a counter/escape ability.
* Buff his basic SP/>>A/>>JA as well.

5. Rudolf
* Hard to use in PvP(and in team fights), but simple yet effective in Stage Mode.
* Rudolf is a weird case; he is both overpowered & underpowered at the same time.
* (Rule-Restricted)Infinites are a big part of Rudolf's basic kit.
* Buff normal shuriken mp15->0 and z-axis aim from 2.5 to 3.
* Find some way to nerf his D>A; this one move in PvP is extremely oppressive even without infinites.
* Keep shuriken as type1 due to the new aim system, otherwise I'd use type3 to make him more team-friendly.
* >>D will now have z-axis movement, along with D>J(also starts faster).
* super_punch & >>A are guaranteed punishable on flip even if successful. Fix this!
* >>A is actually very OP if not for the above. Fix this too!
* I'm not sure whether Rudolf needs a new move. Probably not?
* I might need to add a TransformCheck system, not to stop Rudolf from becoming Julian, but to stop him from becoming an NPC WpnMinion.
* I wonder if there's a way to punish people who abuse F6 with Rudolf without wrongly punishing those who use Beer.

6. Louis
* Suffers several critical problems affecting both PvP and Stage; a few of these cannot be truly fixed.
* Fix bugs affecting his SP/JA(rest), >>A/>>JA(mp), D>J(missing itr) and D^J(wtf). Buff various things.
* Change DJA to transform to weaker Hero version of LouisEX; this should solve those unfixable problems.
* HeroLEX's moveset is mostly based on the version from Streetwize's mod.
* Yes I will allow HeroLEX to transform back to normal Louis anytime, at the cost of MP. No instant runstab.
* Not sure whether I should still allow Louis to transform into BossLouisEX (DJA+DJA, hplock via mpregen).
* DvJ is currently an ArmorUp Buff(courtesy of Nyamaiku), with low MP cost but uses Louis's original HP lock mechanism. Unlike similar skills in other mods, I do NOT allow it to stack infinitely.

7. Firen
* Moderately difficult to use properly in PvP and Stage; very reliant on zoning and combos are hard to setup.
* Add DJA Summon Fire Sword(Neuer Stern). Normal A does not burn. Solves Firen's bad matchup vs Dennis by giving him melee reach.
* Added state19 to minimize risk of self-burn when swinging weapons and when doing D>A(good for broken_defend).
* D>A can no longer x6(max x3). Stronger on non-burning but weaker on burning(overall D>AAA same damage).
* Fixed Julian/Knight's burning bdy so that Firen's combos can work on them properly.
* Old idea of DvA flamestomp is no longer necessary with the above changes.
* Redesign D>J's groundfire and fix a bug that makes the groundfire punch harder than it needs to be.
* Find some way to adjust DvJ's balance; it is both kinda eh and very overpowered at the same time.
* Buff D^J to no longer cost HP and pierce armor(but can still be defended).
* Fix the broken_defend loop on helicopter spin super_punch.

8. Freeze
* Solid character all-around and very popular; One-Touch Man.
* Fix his inconsistent A(punch) recovery time.
* Nerf his D>A's nrg->iceball conversion; spawns weaker iceballs.
* D>A can hit falling on 1st tu; this is for Template's DJA combo. Old DvA Icepunch no longer needed.
* Same as John, I don't want to buff him too much, but I want a new utility DJA.
* Add DJA for giving ice sword to others directly.

9. Dennis
* Wrecks anyone who isn't Deep/Woody/Davis in PvP, but has trouble dealing with big groups in Stage.
* Main problem in PvP: the damage of his Grab and DvA(especially first 3 hits) is too high; nerf those.
* Main problem in Stage: his multihit attacks can be easily interrupted and he lacks 1-hit knockdown.
* Add DJA ik3 "Galeforce" for crowd control & anti-leap-escape. Buff his D>J bdy to avoid Bandit punches.
* Add vrest to >>A; better against armor(but still same number of kicks to break defend for DvA followup).
* (G)D>J infinite can now be escaped; turn away from Dennis, and dash after landing from the 1st kick.
* Fix his A recovery being 1tu too slow that results in silly trades against 2tu startup attacks.
* Other matchup problems can be solved buffing Dennis's opponents(eg: Firen) rather than nerfing Dennis.
* Nerf his chaseball spam. Seriously wtf.

10. Woody
* The #1 PvP Champion with insane DPS. Pretty powerful & useful in Stage but not exactly easy to use.
* Massively nerfed his D^A(dmg70->52) and he is still godlike. His tech is just THAT good and mp-efficient.
* D>J removed invulnerability frames, will not double-hit or crush defend, less damage(85->75), mp200->225.
* Fix teleport inputs, give him DJA (same as DvJ without allies).
* Improve all his other underused/flawed tech, such as >>AA.

11. Davis
* High damage rushdown PvP & >>D>A spam. Quite decent in Stage but could be better at crowd control.
* Shift around his dmg values to accommodate new enemy Stage HP and D^JA dmg(50->69); same overall damage.
* D^A is only invulnerable from Combos/Rolling. Otherwise, has a tiny bdy on 2nd tu that only some attacks can hit; this fixes the injury DP problem in PvP.
* New DJA megapunch for low-cost AOE(also works after DvA, compared to D^JA being arest) & anti-armor.
* DvA gets a new bdy that cannot be hit by soldiers'(eg: bandits) normal punch, great for crowd control.
* >>A is stronger, >>AA will always hit once, >>A(<) is the new input for completely cancelling the itr.

38. Bat
* D^J is overpowered for Boss/PvP. One-trick pony with D>A for Stage(nullified by Knight/ie4 defenders).
* Nerf D^J overall omniblockable but make it anti-Knight(ie23). Improve tech for D>A and D>J.
* Add DJA that allows him to "surrender" and change to attacker's team. Disable this move from Boss in Stage.
* I do want to improve him more, but this is a low priority.

50. LouisEX
* Banned in PvP despite the HP lock. Awesome fun in Stage. Actually the weakest of the 4 Bosses.
* LEX's attacks are all very strong, but have technical weaknesses that can be exploited and lacks z-axis.
* I will still nerf his D>A though, at the very least allow enemy AI to be able to react and block it.
* Instant Jump Attack. This is particularly unfair to Dennis & will be fixed via a new Cpoint "Fake212" system.
* Changes/New Moves from HeroLEX will not be available to BossLEX; this is for AI consistency in Stage.

51. Firzen
* Boss whose spells are slow to startup but deal WAY TOO MUCH damage!!
* My main goal is to tone down his damage so that he is a fair boss, but make him more fun for players to use.
* Letting him have DvJ ice sword sounds like a lot of fun, and players can use it back against the boss!
* Add DvA, which is a variant on D^A that is useful for combos & anti-AI(doesn't make them block).
* These new moves ultimately don't randomly change the way players approach Firzen as an enemy boss, so its fine.
* No point putting a DJA move; it is possible to bypass the de-fusion input anyway.
* Firen & Freeze are actually better than Firzen in terms of technique, whether individually or as a team.

52. Julian
* Julian is actually a good boss; just need to tweak his damage & fix his exploits.
* Tweak his damage to better fit new enemy Stage HP + reward melee over range(for players).
* D>A skulls do WAY too much damage and have some awful bugs.
* Fix wallbang issue by giving everyone blinking if they flip from very high in the sky.
* D>J also can be flipped(higher vrest, smaller behind).
* D>J & D^J no longer instantly destroy milk.
* Fix Mirror Image clones exploits(midair & Rudolf DJA).

30. Bandit
* Slightly tone down his ability to gang up on players and it should be fine.

31. Hunter
* Supposed to be as weak as Bandit, but he is actually too OP for that role.
* Near-instant >>A/>>JA with deceptively large/long vrest hitboxes. Nerf this.
* Arrows can juggle AND z-axis aim is 2.5. Remove juggle and nerf aim to 2.
* His throw speed and other stats should match Bandit's.

32. Mark
* Actually stronger than the 10 Heroes, but his low mobility makes him unable to dodge certain attacks.
* Buff his normal A punch to be more similar to Dennis's, but retain Deep's damage.
* Nerf his overly high damage and his nonsensically high priority hitboxes.
* Fix D>AA consistency(super_punch), start6/4->5.
* I will be particularly careful with the number of Marks I put in Stage as an enemy.

33. Jack
* Based on Nyamaiku's Jackass.
* Tends to juggle; limit his machinegun D>A, maybe make D^A start4->5. Otherwise let him be Hero-level.
* I will be particularly careful with the number of Jacks I put in Stage as an enemy.

34. Sorcerer
* This is a good enemy minion. 50-50 as an ally(his AI is a more generous healer than Jan btw).
* Could use some small damage buffs as a Rudolf transform choice.
* Improve on the "tell" when he does D>A/D>J; players can't react fast enough to it.
* His hitboxes are pretty weird and should be tweaked. His role is a disabler.

35. Monk
* Excellent NPC Ally, but is mediocre as an enemy(only effective as anti-projectile support).
* Bandit-like stats is okay, but he has some strange oddities that need fixing.
* Utterly unsuitable as LouisEX's minion in gameplay; he only fits for thematic reasons.
* I wonder if I should add a WpnMonk variant specifically as an enemy.

36. Jan
* Based on Nyamaiku's JAV.
* I feel that Jan is not a good character in Stage, both as an ally and as an enemy.
* She overshadows John with her D^J heal, while her D^A is extremely annoying to deal with/breaks combos.
* Also responsible for causing LF2 to crash in Battle Mode if you try to 10/30 every single soldier.
* I need a replacement for her role, but I still want to keep her as a character and give her Revive.

37. Knight
* This is actually a good minion.
* However, his start5 armored jump attack is really unfair and will be nerfed.
* I might also prevent Knight's AI from picking up weapons(but will still chase weapons when running).
* Also for some reason, Knight's D>A is faster than normal Attack. I'll fix this.

39. Justin
* Based on Nyamaiku's Jusef(unreleased).
* Decent soldier, but will juggle if there's too many at once. Cannot really fuse him as Hero-Soldier hybrid.
* I think it is okay to give him the new Mirror Image move, but other moves will have to be reviewed.
* I will be particularly careful with the number of Justins I put in Stage as an enemy.

[The_Hari]

* I do wonder if having only 1 move is too plain though, and I don't want some of my old HeroMinion ideas to go to waste, like "Weapon Steal", "Transmute", "Re-Roll F8 Weapon", "Timelock"...

Those sounds perfect from what I imagine them to be like, like teamplate is messing with "reality", or kinda the game itself.

Instead of making weapons, maybe Transmute a weapon currently on hand to something else? Combine with D>J to stop AI from picking up weapons so that he can use them himself. This also kinda solves my concern about giving John vrest >>JA directly since this still needs him to pick up a weapon. Will also need to allow Milk to be transmuted into a weapon(important for Survival where you can't get any weapon drops due to the accumulation of milks), but not in a way that refreshes the contents of the milk.

Again, a weapon related move fits and even connects the dots, as for why his shield has this special feature in the first place.
Just don't know what's next. Maybe it gives John some melee buff for his wand?

* Buff normal shuriken mp15->0 and z-axis aim from 2.5 to 3.

Why shurikens don't cost any mana, while arrows still does?

* I'm not sure whether Rudolf needs a new move. Probably not?

Everyone should get one :T

* I wonder if there's a way to punish people who abuse F6 with Rudolf without wrongly punishing those who use Beer.

How do you even abuse F6 in normal game, I'm using it only for testing moves

* Not sure whether I should still allow Louis to transform into BossLouisEX (DJA+DJA, hplock via mpregen).

Nah, leave him as just a stage enemy. There isn't even any way to distinguish boss version from regular one on first sight

* DvJ is currently an ArmorUp Buff(courtesy of Nyamaiku), with low MP cost but uses Louis's original HP lock mechanism. Unlike similar skills in other mods, I do NOT allow it to stack infinitely.

So you can use it only once and only when your hp is below 33%? Then maybe make it so it gives better protection than one additional hit an armor can take

* Add DJA for giving ice sword to others directly.

Haha, will you be able to supply your army with swords, or is it a multiplayer only (requring an input) move?

Awesome fun in Stage. Actually the weakest of the 4 Bosses.

He really is fun against big group of enemies. I'd like to see a good op mod with characters edited to fit this kind of play.
Also, I'd like to see an army vs army phases in stage mode, then maybe delete minions that survived, so it wouldn't be only "final battle" thing

* I need a replacement for her role, but I still want to keep her as a character and give her Revive.

How about making her orb into some sort of drone helper in stage mode? Would use weaker version of Jan's attacks, maybe not even need to make it a t0 but a player's chasing type 3?

[STM1993]

Why shurikens don't cost any mana, while arrows still does?
...
Everyone should get one :T
...
How do you even abuse F6 in normal game, I'm using it only for testing moves

Rudolf needs to land 3 hits to stun an enemy, and MP Regen is disabled during Invisibility.
It feels wrong for Rudolf to lose his most basic attack(specifically 2nd & 3rd star) when his MP is low.
In contrast, Henry only needs 1 shot to stun and can slowly inch his way closer with every shot(consistent rate of fire too unlike Rudolf). He only needs hit_a for JAA or >>J<A. The MP cost overall serves to discourage spamming so that players may reserve their MP for Henry's actual special moves.

For consistency yes, but what can I give Rudolf without breaking the feel of his character? The main thing is, same as Henry, I don't want to give him a DvA melee that has sufficiently fast startup to act as a counter after blocking, or an escape. Also, Rudolf has DJA to expand his moveset. I'm okay with the new move being a variant of an existing move.

I'm referring to F6 Invis+Clones, and I don't want to do it in a way that "de-links" the clones because it means they won't transform when Rudolf does. Come to think of it, F7+Clones is unfixable. This is low priority though since its not an issue with the main game.

So you can use it only once and only when your hp is below 33%? Then maybe make it so it gives better protection than one additional hit an armor can take
...
Haha, will you be able to supply your army with swords, or is it a multiplayer only (requring an input) move?
...
Also, I'd like to see an army vs army phases in stage mode, then maybe delete minions that survived, so it wouldn't be only "final battle" thing

ArmorBuff can be used multiple times as long as Louis' HP is low(or lf2.net is enabled). However, unlike other mods, re-casting only resets the buff(eg: always sets to armor+1) instead of being able to stack the buff infinitely(eg: armor+1,+2,+3,+4...).

Freeze DJA is actually just normal DvJ, but Freeze summons the sword directly to the air instead of holding it in his own hand, so he doesn't need to drop his own weapon or throw the new ice sword. Its a largely quality-of-life change, and something like DvJJ input is not an option due to the current weapon being dropped instantly on 1st frame via wpoint kind 3.

Definitely a good idea for the army deletion, and I know a DC method to make that whole system work. It relies on Players not being able to go past the x:0 border, but all spawned Coms can.

How about making her orb into some sort of drone helper in stage mode? Would use weaker version of Jan's attacks, maybe not even need to make it a t0 but a player's chasing type 3?

Not really a fan of the drone idea, but I do want to do something about her very existence.
For healing, I'm definitely replacing her with some kind of D^J dispenser in Stage.

[The_Hari]

I'm referring to F6 Invis+Clones, and I don't want to do it in a way that "de-links" the clones because it means they won't transform when Rudolf does. Come to think of it, F7+Clones is unfixable. This is low priority though since its not an issue with the main game.

Yeah I got it, what I meant was, why do you want to punish using cheats, cheating with cheats is their whole reason to be xD Anyway, mainly I meant not to put your time into something like this, at least for now.

ArmorBuff can be used multiple times as long as Louis' HP is low(or lf2.net is enabled). However, unlike other mods, re-casting only resets the buff(eg: always sets to armor+1) instead of being able to stack the buff infinitely(eg: armor+1,+2,+3,+4...).

I'm fine with it being like this, makes it more special, but only +1 armor = one additional punch as I suppose, is kinda weak, especially as it's already limited and sort of "last resort" kind of move. I would say it could be at least armor +2, Julian is running around with +3 all the time and Louis can't even transform into boss character anymore

Freeze DJA is actually just normal DvJ, but Freeze summons the sword directly to the air instead of holding it in his own hand, so he doesn't need to drop his own weapon or throw the new ice sword. Its a largely quality-of-life change, and something like DvJJ input is not an option due to the current weapon being dropped instantly on 1st frame via wpoint kind 3.

Ah, too bad, well, throwing a sword on the ground is enough to be sure someone is gonna take it in a moment, but would be cool to actually visually put it into one's hand. Could be easily done with cpoint
and new frame for every character

Definitely a good idea for the army deletion, and I know a DC method to make that whole system work. It relies on Players not being able to go past the x:0 border, but all spawned Coms can.

Oh, didn't know about it, I wanted to do it by messing with simple AI script for all of the minions and make them run to the left when it's certain stage and then delete themselves with an input, just wasn't sure how would "reserve" work with that.
Kinda fun, how you think you get a whole army at the end of stage 2-3 and then when 2-4 starts, all of them just run away