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+--- Thread: [C] Walker - 2.08 (/showthread.php?tid=7056)
RE: [C] Walker - 2.07 - YinYin - 05-11-2014
I don't get the point of the new D>A and DvA. They seem rather useless as a distraction.
The J + D^J or DvA don't really resonate with me either because if the only point of the catch is to perform the following kick, why not directly perform it without catching? Wait it's supposed to be a throw ... well it still feels weird.
The mirrage cancel is interesting.
The new effect on the phantom dash looks awesome.
And the special moves from catching work great.
That's all I have.
RE: [C] Walker - 2.07 - 支倉凍砂 - 05-12-2014
(05-11-2014, 05:01 PM)YinYin Wrote: I don't get the point of the new D>A and DvA. They seem rather useless as a distraction.It was 11 in the evening and I was like "I need to make something with illusions".
Do you think something similar could work or should I just scrap the idea entirely?
(05-11-2014, 05:01 PM)YinYin Wrote: The J + D^J or DvA don't really resonate with me either because if the only point of the catch is to perform the following kick, why not directly perform it without catching? Wait it's supposed to be a throw ... well it still feels weird.It is only so much you can do with reusing sprites from other characters. : /
Once again I was ripping of Hakumen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sD_chm9qM4g&t=2m43s
If we can get an interesting animation, does a throw feel right in the air?
(05-11-2014, 05:01 PM)YinYin Wrote: The J + D^J or DvA don't really resonate with me either because if the only point of the catch is toWould you like this to be the counter instead of the current throw?
The mirrage cancel is interesting.
Or should it be an option like A = throw, J = Mirage Cancel?
RE: [C] Walker - 2.07 - STM1993 - 05-12-2014
(05-11-2014, 02:44 PM)支倉凍砂 Wrote:I don't think I can fault you for that, I always find Louis' grabbing to be really wonky out for some reason - either the enemy is caught but ends up being sent to jumping frame immediately or they pickup items just at the beginning.(05-10-2014, 02:06 PM)STM1993 Wrote: I also found that there's a bug where the enemy can grab items at the beginning of the hurricane throw.Wat? I'm pretty sure I ripped the data of Louis' throw without making any changes. o.o
Does that mean it happens just before he transforms to Louis?
(05-11-2014, 02:44 PM)支倉凍砂 Wrote: Yeah, I've been screwing around again because I have no idea what direction I should head in. XDI have the same opinion as YinYin here.
Wraith Kick is now a throw.
You can now cancel a normal catch into all of Walker's throws.
Tried making some afterimage effects, I think it looks quite nice on Phantom Dash, but I think it needs to be done in an entirely different way for Spectre Kick.
Two new illusion moves, D→/↓A and A after Spooky Guard.
J+D^J/vA isn't very useful, feels essentially the same as spectre kick. I much preferred wraith kick because it lets you land faster and also sent your enemy down quickly and faster than using normal jump attack. That said a downward throw could still work, might be useful for clearing some enemies below.
Being able to use throws on grabbing is awesome.
Phantom Dash afterimage is great. Spectre Kick... maybe the afterimages could simply mirror his previous frames like this MvC1 Ryu. Basically he could look more shadowy at the beginning and somehow solidify when he kicks.
D>A/DvA doesn't work as distraction and I don't see any combo potential with it. Distractions would be more useful if both illusion and actual player aren't moving in the same direction. I think it should be scrapped or remade.
The back-teleport A after Spooky Guard is awesome. Its riskier than simply throwing, but it pays off well.
Oh yeah, have you considered allowing D>J to throw in the opposite direction? Whener I use it in HK Colloseum I tend to end up throwing the guy to the border and get myself hit.
RE: [C] Walker - 2.07 - 支倉凍砂 - 05-13-2014
By the way, the reason I made the new throw on two commands was because I couldn't get D↑J to work after D↑A for some reason.
I checked the code but couldn't find anything, maybe I was too tired to find what was wrong?
Anyone having similar issues, or a solution?
(05-12-2014, 02:17 AM)STM1993 Wrote: J+D^J/vA isn't very useful, feels essentially the same as spectre kick. I much preferred wraith kick because it lets you land faster and also sent your enemy down quickly and faster than using normal jump attack. That said a downward throw could still work, might be useful for clearing some enemies below.I see.
Though, I have one question is it really a good thing to send your opponent to the more quickly? I mean the sooner they hit ground, the sooner they will rise and get invulnerability, giving you less time to reposition yourself.
Would you like to keep the Jack Kick from normal catch, or see that scrapped as well?
An air throw that throws the opponent into other opponents sounds like a good idea, I'll see what I can do.
(05-12-2014, 02:17 AM)STM1993 Wrote: Phantom Dash afterimage is great. Spectre Kick... maybe the afterimages could simply mirror his previous frames like this MvC1 Ryu. Basically he could look more shadowy at the beginning and somehow solidify when he kicks.I thought of something similar at first but I couldn't get it to look nice either so I changed it to the currently. (I'm pretty sure the data is left as well, so you could try it yourself). But I'll try around again and see what I can do.
(05-12-2014, 02:17 AM)STM1993 Wrote: D>A/DvA doesn't work as distraction and I don't see any combo potential with it. Distractions would be more useful if both illusion and actual player aren't moving in the same direction. I think it should be scrapped or remade.Roger.
If you like an attack that lands more quickly... how about a move that creates an illusion of him still being in the air, while he lands and punches forward? It could be JD→A, and D→A could once again create a jumping illusion of him while he does the same attack?
(05-12-2014, 02:17 AM)STM1993 Wrote: The back-teleport A after Spooky Guard is awesome. Its riskier than simply throwing, but it pays off well.Would you like to see this as a seperate D↑J move instead of how it works now?
Should you be able to change the distance by different inputs?
Would you like him to automatically attack?
(05-12-2014, 02:17 AM)STM1993 Wrote: Oh yeah, have you considered allowing D>J to throw in the opposite direction? Whener I use it in HK Colloseum I tend to end up throwing the guy to the border and get myself hit.I haven't. Thinking of how much momentum he has from the dash, I think it would look odd to throw the opponent backwards.
So for the next experimental patch how does this sound:
- JD↓A a strong kick that slams opponent into the ground quickly
- JD↓J a quick throw that throws opponent downward
- Mirage Cancel is made into its own move D↑J. Just D↑J moves him same distance as now, A further forward (or is it a bad idea to have something at A?), D backwards and J costs some MP but actually uses that teleport-state to appear behind opponent?
Some other random thoughts:
- Should his run D be similar to Julian's?
- Should Phantom Dash go to standard catch instead of Louis' throw, like how it works for Drew in HF or would that be too strong?
RE: [C] Walker - 2.07 - STM1993 - 05-13-2014
(05-13-2014, 11:06 AM)支倉凍砂 Wrote: By the way, the reason I made the new throw on two commands was because I couldn't get D↑J to work after D↑A for some reason.I think YinYin mentioned this previously in this thread. If you use any D (direction) A move, pressing J will cause you to do D (direction) J as soon as your character is allowed to do so. Its an engine-related issue, though not always a bad thing.
(05-13-2014, 11:06 AM)支倉凍砂 Wrote: Though, I have one question is it really a good thing to send your opponent to the ground more quickly? I mean the sooner they hit ground, the sooner they will rise and get invulnerability, giving you less time to reposition yourself.Sending someone down fast enough is to guarantee that the enemy cannot flip out at the end of a combo, kind of like Davis' D^JA. Think of it as a safe option.
If its not fast enough and the enemy can flip, but you land earlier than him, you can punch him. Its like Davis using D^A and you flip out of it - he can immediately punch you again.
(05-13-2014, 11:06 AM)支倉凍砂 Wrote: Would you like to keep the Jack Kick from normal catch, or see that scrapped as well?I think its better to take it out. I found a nasty infinite with it because you can catch the opponent again in mid-air and opponents cannot flip if they are thrown like that for some reason.
(AAA, grab, D^J, (wait until Walker lands), >J+DvA, (wait until Walker lands), >J+DvA...)
Other things I found about the move:
* You can chain with D^A(uppercut), but the opponent will be too far away to use anything other than A after that.
(05-13-2014, 11:06 AM)支倉凍砂 Wrote: If you like an attack that lands more quickly... how about a move that creates an illusion of him still being in the air, while he lands and punches forward? It could be JD→A, and D→A could once again create a jumping illusion of him while he does the same attack?The mid-air immediate landing one is nice. The 2nd version(create a jumping illusion) wouldn't be useful.
(05-13-2014, 11:06 AM)支倉凍砂 Wrote: Would you like to see this as a seperate D↑J move instead of how it works now?Yes, separate move. A player should commit to one of the counters.
Should you be able to change the distance by different inputs?
Would you like him to automatically attack?
Probably not necessary to change distance. Its elegant and simple as it is.
No, no auto-attack. Let the player decide what he wants to do.
(05-13-2014, 11:06 AM)支倉凍砂 Wrote: So for the next experimental patch how does this sound:JDvA will be great.
- JD↓A a strong kick that slams opponent into the ground quickly
- JD↓J a quick throw that throws opponent downward
- Mirage Cancel is made into its own move D↑J. Just D↑J moves him same distance as now, A further forward (or is it a bad idea to have something at A?), D backwards and J costs some MP but actually uses that teleport-state to appear behind opponent?
Some other random thoughts:
- Should his run D be similar to Julian's?
- Should Phantom Dash go to standard catch instead of Louis' throw, like how it works for Drew in HF or would that be too strong?
JDvJ I'm unsure how well it'd work till I see it.
Multiple distances and teleport state for mirage cancel is not necessary, but if you insist, I'll try it out in both duels and stage mode.
If you do make his run D like Julian's, would appreciate if it functions just like a normal roll except with an illusion, but I like normal roll as it is.
If D>J goes to standard catch it would be way overpowered.
RE: [C] Walker - 2.07 - bashscrazy - 05-13-2014
Nice character.
One weird thing I noticed is if you do the louis throw attack (phantom dash? - the readme file as weird characters between the AJD letters so hard to tell) is if you do it against the ending of the background. The enemy gets hit by some invisible force.
AS SEEN HERE
Also another bug I am assuming. Is the D v A attack. The mirage clone has a bdy so if you attack he will be interrupted and becomes a character!
AS SEEN HERE
RE: [C] Walker - 2.07 - STM1993 - 05-13-2014
(05-13-2014, 04:15 PM)bashscrazy Wrote: One weird thing I noticed is if you do the louis throw attack (phantom dash? - the readme file as weird characters between the AJD letters so hard to tell) is if you do it against the ending of the background. The enemy gets hit by some invisible force.Its intended for a wall-bounce feature, but it doesn't work very consistently at the moment.
AS SEEN HERE
(05-13-2014, 04:15 PM)bashscrazy Wrote: Also another bug I am assuming. Is the D v A attack. The mirage clone has a bdy so if you attack he will be interrupted and becomes a character!Yeah its a bug, but not important as he's gonna remove that experimental attack anyway.
AS SEEN HERE
RE: [C] Walker - 2.07 - bashscrazy - 05-13-2014
(05-13-2014, 04:37 PM)STM1993 Wrote: Its intended for a wall-bounce feature, but it doesn't work very consistently at the moment.
Oh really? well that makes sense and it's also cool!
RE: [C] Walker - 2.07 - 支倉凍砂 - 05-14-2014
(05-13-2014, 01:12 PM)STM1993 Wrote: I think YinYin mentioned this previously in this thread. If you use any D (direction) A move, pressing J will cause you to do D (direction) J as soon as your character is allowed to do so. Its an engine-related issue, though not always a bad thing.Yeah, I know you can omit the D for a J-special after an A-special in the air, but why does it block me from doing it at all?
Shouldn't D↑AD↑J still return D↑J? o.o
(05-13-2014, 01:12 PM)STM1993 Wrote: I think its better to take it out. I found a nasty infinite with it because you can catch the opponent again in mid-air and opponents cannot flip if they are thrown like that for some reason.If it is a catch-only move it couldn't be used as an infinite, also angle, distance and the non-flippable nature of it could be adjusted if needed.
(AAA, grab, D^J, (wait until Walker lands), >J+DvA, (wait until Walker lands), >J+DvA...)
(05-13-2014, 01:12 PM)STM1993 Wrote: Probably not necessary to change distance. Its elegant and simple as it is.Wouldn't it be good to have the option if any character use their D→A against you to still be able to counter it?
(05-13-2014, 01:12 PM)STM1993 Wrote: If you do make his run D like Julian's, would appreciate if it functions just like a normal roll except with an illusion, but I like normal roll as it is.So you want to him to roll normally, just leave an illusion of him behind?
(05-13-2014, 04:15 PM)bashscrazy Wrote: the readme file as weird characters between the AJD letters so hard to tellYou will probably need install support for East Asian Languages from your control panel to properly view full-width arrow symbols. Your computer can probably handle the extra 250mb needed. ; )
And by the way, thanks for trying Walker out.
RE: [C] Walker - 2.07 - STM1993 - 05-14-2014
(05-14-2014, 06:34 AM)支倉凍砂 Wrote: Yeah, I know you can omit the D for a J-special after an A-special in the air, but why does it block me from doing it at all?If you pressed D^A one by one, somehow D^A is used but the A isn't recorded, so if you press J it'd become D^J. If you press A again, it somehow remembers you've already done D^A so it becomes (D^A) (A). If you press D the game records it as D^D, which cancels the 3 keys. So if you press D^A D^J, the game remembers the input to be (D^D) (^J). You have to do it D^A D D^J if you insist on using the full input.
Shouldn't D↑AD↑J still return D↑J? o.o
If you pressed D^A all keys at once, this bug never happens.
(05-14-2014, 06:34 AM)支倉凍砂 Wrote:You're right, I forgot about projectiles.(05-13-2014, 01:12 PM)STM1993 Wrote: Probably not necessary to change distance. Its elegant and simple as it is.Wouldn't it be good to have the option if any character use their D→A against you to still be able to counter it?
(05-14-2014, 06:34 AM)支倉凍砂 Wrote:Actually, I thought it could be: Leave an illusion of him using stop_run and then standing/defending or using run attack, while Walker moves just like rolling(can pick up items, no z-axis) except he is invisible. But then now I realize this won't be a very good distraction against human players because they can still see the name... and AI is hard to fool since they can still track you moving.(05-13-2014, 01:12 PM)STM1993 Wrote: If you do make his run D like Julian's, would appreciate if it functions just like a normal roll except with an illusion, but I like normal roll as it is.So you want to him to roll normally, just leave an illusion of him behind?
I guess I like the normal LF2 rolling too much
