[C] Walker - 2.08

[STM1993]

You are aware that JD↑A is invulnerable until recovery? If you time and space it properly you cannot be punched out of it.

Huh, I didn't know that at all. Knowing that helps a lot with aiming it, which led me to finding one more combo: >>JD^A D>J (yes, you can catch the person in mid-air). In the process, I also found that there's a bug where the enemy can grab items at the beginning of the hurricane throw.

Are you suggesting that he should be able to do the Louis Hurricane Throw and the counter-throw as specials from his normal grab?

Hurricane throw yes, counter-throw no.
I find it weird if a character can use a grab move by itself but can't use it when the enemy is already grabbed, unless the grab move makes it look like the character needs to pick up some speed or something. For counter-throw, I'd like it to strictly remain a counter because the way it is performed implies the character is using the enemy's momentum against him rather than using his own strength, plus not much use for using counter-throw during grab other than to ensure the enemy stays down for a while.

That said, it'd be nice to have some special moves during grab. Having such a close combat punchy character but no special moves during grabs is awkward.

Your enemy can flip after JD↑A anyway, so I wouldn't count that as combo potential.

>>JA can still be used to hit right after the enemy lands from flipping, at least when I checked with a non-moving player Bandit.

If I can ever get Gad back to finish Walker for me, I'll be sure to mention it.

And he has a couple of pixels which are completely black in the eyes, most notable when punching, which is treated as transparent in LF2.

I was wondering if one could make Walker more... ghostly?
Maybe like after-images, or illusion moves? Would that be interesting?

Sure, why not? It could also make his current moves look more impressive and if you get the sprites for it, also explain the invincibility during spectre kick.

I suppose anything that can make the opponent double-guess works. I like the illusion dummy + attack behind as the new counter if the illusion looks like he's still blocking - the enemy won't know whether he should continue hitting when you block or he should turn and block behind himself - which would open him up if you weren't using the illusion.

[YinYin]

Or what would you like to see or have in mind?

Oh I just thought of adding phantom images and other cool looking effects to the special moves he already has.

[支倉凍砂]

Oh, I went nuts again...

But first;

I also found that there's a bug where the enemy can grab items at the beginning of the hurricane throw.

Wat? I'm pretty sure I ripped the data of Louis' throw without making any changes. o.o
Does that mean it happens just before he transforms to Louis?

it'd be nice to have some special moves during grab. Having such a close combat punchy character but no special moves during grabs is awkward.

Nice point, I think you might like some of the things in this patch.



Yeah, I've been screwing around again because I have no idea what direction I should head in. XD
Wraith Kick is now a throw.
You can now cancel a normal catch into all of Walker's throws.
Tried making some afterimage effects, I think it looks quite nice on Phantom Dash, but I think it needs to be done in an entirely different way for Spectre Kick.
Two new illusion moves, D→/↓A and A after Spooky Guard.

Refer to patch notes for details.

Questions about each change:
Do you like it?
Does it has potential?
Can it be reworked or should it be scrapped entirely?

Download link in first post.

[YinYin]

I don't get the point of the new D>A and DvA. They seem rather useless as a distraction.
The J + D^J or DvA don't really resonate with me either because if the only point of the catch is to perform the following kick, why not directly perform it without catching? Wait it's supposed to be a throw ... well it still feels weird.

The mirrage cancel is interesting.
The new effect on the phantom dash looks awesome.
And the special moves from catching work great.

That's all I have.

[支倉凍砂]

I don't get the point of the new D>A and DvA. They seem rather useless as a distraction.

It was 11 in the evening and I was like "I need to make something with illusions".
Do you think something similar could work or should I just scrap the idea entirely?

The J + D^J or DvA don't really resonate with me either because if the only point of the catch is to perform the following kick, why not directly perform it without catching? Wait it's supposed to be a throw ... well it still feels weird.

It is only so much you can do with reusing sprites from other characters. : /
Once again I was ripping of Hakumen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sD_chm9qM4g&t=2m43s

If we can get an interesting animation, does a throw feel right in the air?

The J + D^J or DvA don't really resonate with me either because if the only point of the catch is to
The mirrage cancel is interesting.

Would you like this to be the counter instead of the current throw?
Or should it be an option like A = throw, J = Mirage Cancel?

[STM1993]

I also found that there's a bug where the enemy can grab items at the beginning of the hurricane throw.

Wat? I'm pretty sure I ripped the data of Louis' throw without making any changes. o.o
Does that mean it happens just before he transforms to Louis?

I don't think I can fault you for that, I always find Louis' grabbing to be really wonky out for some reason - either the enemy is caught but ends up being sent to jumping frame immediately or they pickup items just at the beginning.

Yeah, I've been screwing around again because I have no idea what direction I should head in. XD
Wraith Kick is now a throw.
You can now cancel a normal catch into all of Walker's throws.
Tried making some afterimage effects, I think it looks quite nice on Phantom Dash, but I think it needs to be done in an entirely different way for Spectre Kick.
Two new illusion moves, D→/↓A and A after Spooky Guard.

I have the same opinion as YinYin here.

J+D^J/vA isn't very useful, feels essentially the same as spectre kick. I much preferred wraith kick because it lets you land faster and also sent your enemy down quickly and faster than using normal jump attack. That said a downward throw could still work, might be useful for clearing some enemies below.

Being able to use throws on grabbing is awesome.

Phantom Dash afterimage is great. Spectre Kick... maybe the afterimages could simply mirror his previous frames like this MvC1 Ryu. Basically he could look more shadowy at the beginning and somehow solidify when he kicks.

D>A/DvA doesn't work as distraction and I don't see any combo potential with it. Distractions would be more useful if both illusion and actual player aren't moving in the same direction. I think it should be scrapped or remade.

The back-teleport A after Spooky Guard is awesome. Its riskier than simply throwing, but it pays off well.

Oh yeah, have you considered allowing D>J to throw in the opposite direction? Whener I use it in HK Colloseum I tend to end up throwing the guy to the border and get myself hit.

[支倉凍砂]

By the way, the reason I made the new throw on two commands was because I couldn't get D↑J to work after D↑A for some reason.
I checked the code but couldn't find anything, maybe I was too tired to find what was wrong?
Anyone having similar issues, or a solution?

J+D^J/vA isn't very useful, feels essentially the same as spectre kick. I much preferred wraith kick because it lets you land faster and also sent your enemy down quickly and faster than using normal jump attack. That said a downward throw could still work, might be useful for clearing some enemies below.

I see.
Though, I have one question is it really a good thing to send your opponent to the more quickly? I mean the sooner they hit ground, the sooner they will rise and get invulnerability, giving you less time to reposition yourself.

Would you like to keep the Jack Kick from normal catch, or see that scrapped as well?

An air throw that throws the opponent into other opponents sounds like a good idea, I'll see what I can do.

Phantom Dash afterimage is great. Spectre Kick... maybe the afterimages could simply mirror his previous frames like this MvC1 Ryu. Basically he could look more shadowy at the beginning and somehow solidify when he kicks.

I thought of something similar at first but I couldn't get it to look nice either so I changed it to the currently. (I'm pretty sure the data is left as well, so you could try it yourself). But I'll try around again and see what I can do.

D>A/DvA doesn't work as distraction and I don't see any combo potential with it. Distractions would be more useful if both illusion and actual player aren't moving in the same direction. I think it should be scrapped or remade.

Roger.
If you like an attack that lands more quickly... how about a move that creates an illusion of him still being in the air, while he lands and punches forward? It could be JD→A, and D→A could once again create a jumping illusion of him while he does the same attack?

The back-teleport A after Spooky Guard is awesome. Its riskier than simply throwing, but it pays off well.

Would you like to see this as a seperate D↑J move instead of how it works now?
Should you be able to change the distance by different inputs?
Would you like him to automatically attack?

Oh yeah, have you considered allowing D>J to throw in the opposite direction? Whener I use it in HK Colloseum I tend to end up throwing the guy to the border and get myself hit.

I haven't. Thinking of how much momentum he has from the dash, I think it would look odd to throw the opponent backwards.



So for the next experimental patch how does this sound:
- JD↓A a strong kick that slams opponent into the ground quickly
- JD↓J a quick throw that throws opponent downward
- Mirage Cancel is made into its own move D↑J. Just D↑J moves him same distance as now, A further forward (or is it a bad idea to have something at A?), D backwards and J costs some MP but actually uses that teleport-state to appear behind opponent?

Some other random thoughts:
- Should his run D be similar to Julian's?
- Should Phantom Dash go to standard catch instead of Louis' throw, like how it works for Drew in HF or would that be too strong?

[STM1993]

By the way, the reason I made the new throw on two commands was because I couldn't get D↑J to work after D↑A for some reason.

I think YinYin mentioned this previously in this thread. If you use any D (direction) A move, pressing J will cause you to do D (direction) J as soon as your character is allowed to do so. Its an engine-related issue, though not always a bad thing.

Though, I have one question is it really a good thing to send your opponent to the ground more quickly? I mean the sooner they hit ground, the sooner they will rise and get invulnerability, giving you less time to reposition yourself.

Sending someone down fast enough is to guarantee that the enemy cannot flip out at the end of a combo, kind of like Davis' D^JA. Think of it as a safe option.

If its not fast enough and the enemy can flip, but you land earlier than him, you can punch him. Its like Davis using D^A and you flip out of it - he can immediately punch you again.

Would you like to keep the Jack Kick from normal catch, or see that scrapped as well?

I think its better to take it out. I found a nasty infinite with it because you can catch the opponent again in mid-air and opponents cannot flip if they are thrown like that for some reason.
(AAA, grab, D^J, (wait until Walker lands), >J+DvA, (wait until Walker lands), >J+DvA...)

Other things I found about the move:
* You can chain with D^A(uppercut), but the opponent will be too far away to use anything other than A after that.

If you like an attack that lands more quickly... how about a move that creates an illusion of him still being in the air, while he lands and punches forward? It could be JD→A, and D→A could once again create a jumping illusion of him while he does the same attack?

The mid-air immediate landing one is nice. The 2nd version(create a jumping illusion) wouldn't be useful.

Would you like to see this as a seperate D↑J move instead of how it works now?
Should you be able to change the distance by different inputs?
Would you like him to automatically attack?

Yes, separate move. A player should commit to one of the counters.
Probably not necessary to change distance. Its elegant and simple as it is.
No, no auto-attack. Let the player decide what he wants to do.

So for the next experimental patch how does this sound:
- JD↓A a strong kick that slams opponent into the ground quickly
- JD↓J a quick throw that throws opponent downward
- Mirage Cancel is made into its own move D↑J. Just D↑J moves him same distance as now, A further forward (or is it a bad idea to have something at A?), D backwards and J costs some MP but actually uses that teleport-state to appear behind opponent?

Some other random thoughts:
- Should his run D be similar to Julian's?
- Should Phantom Dash go to standard catch instead of Louis' throw, like how it works for Drew in HF or would that be too strong?

JDvA will be great.
JDvJ I'm unsure how well it'd work till I see it.
Multiple distances and teleport state for mirage cancel is not necessary, but if you insist, I'll try it out in both duels and stage mode.

If you do make his run D like Julian's, would appreciate if it functions just like a normal roll except with an illusion, but I like normal roll as it is.
If D>J goes to standard catch it would be way overpowered.

[bashscrazy]

Nice character.

One weird thing I noticed is if you do the louis throw attack (phantom dash? - the readme file as weird characters between the AJD letters so hard to tell) is if you do it against the ending of the background. The enemy gets hit by some invisible force.

AS SEEN HERE

Also another bug I am assuming. Is the D v A attack. The mirage clone has a bdy so if you attack he will be interrupted and becomes a character!

AS SEEN HERE

[STM1993]

One weird thing I noticed is if you do the louis throw attack (phantom dash? - the readme file as weird characters between the AJD letters so hard to tell) is if you do it against the ending of the background. The enemy gets hit by some invisible force.
AS SEEN HERE

Its intended for a wall-bounce feature, but it doesn't work very consistently at the moment.

Also another bug I am assuming. Is the D v A attack. The mirage clone has a bdy so if you attack he will be interrupted and becomes a character!
AS SEEN HERE

Yeah its a bug, but not important as he's gonna remove that experimental attack anyway.