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+--- Thread: [C] Walker - 2.08 (/showthread.php?tid=7056)
RE: [C] Walker - 2.06 - Nyamaiku - 03-30-2014
after all these versions, i still think the movement of the uppercut move is strange(or stiff? no really sure). i got two suggestions for that move.
1) make it like Davis's DP, the character move upward with the punch itself, or
2) make it like the last hit of Davis's strafe, the character remains on the ground, but you can press J to jump(or maybe an upward phantom dash for cool dashing effect).
about dive kick, i would suggest making it a 45 angle kick with a landing. im not sure how to describe.
but here is a very old dennis edit of mine(some of my first projects: doppelgangers of the 10 main characters), try the jump D>J and see what i mean.
linky
about the taunt, try using a stepping sound(running or crouch) instead of the jack "huo!" sound. and if you have the time to try all sorts of dcing, maybe make Walker steps on the enemy if the enemy is dead. but if the enemy is still alive, he will enter broken defense frames(lose balance as the enemy gets up).
that will be real interesting. (and yeah, i love taunt moves
.gif ";)")
)
RE: [Character] Walker - 2.05 - 支倉凍砂 - 03-31-2014
(03-30-2014, 03:48 PM)YinYin Wrote: I liked the angle it had before. It goes too fast and too straight down now.I kind of like the new angle more, especially since it means that it is more differentiated from the dash attack.
Though I can lower the speed, it looks kind of ridiculous, yes.
(03-30-2014, 03:48 PM)YinYin Wrote: No, not at all. For the beginning or a short time frame inside the Phantom Dash you could have a few frames without a bdy. Just try not to have frames with an itr and no bdy. To be different the slide kick would be quite a bit slower and end in a roll. Both together would be almost like dodging with Henrys cartwheel. A rather long time to evade bigger things, except the first half does have a low bdy that can be hit and an itr.If I were to change the low profile, I don't think the recatch works anymore as you will get hit by the enemy thrown. I can tone it down a bit, but I don't think it would work to remove it completely.
(03-30-2014, 04:20 PM)Nyamaiku Wrote: after all these versions, i still think the movement of the uppercut move is strange(or stiff? no really sure). i got two suggestions for that move.1) Isn't it kind of what it is now, just that it only uses one sprite for it rather than Davis' four?
1) make it like Davis's DP, the character move upward with the punch itself, or
2) make it like the last hit of Davis's strafe, the character remains on the ground, but you can press J to jump(or maybe an upward phantom dash for cool dashing effect).
I think it may be the lack of sprite inbetween charging the punch and doing the punch (i.e. frame one and two).
(03-30-2014, 04:20 PM)Nyamaiku Wrote: about dive kick, i would suggest making it a 45 angle kick with a landing. im not sure how to describe.Kind of what it was in v2.05 but without the multihitting?
but here is a very old dennis edit of mine(some of my first projects: doppelgangers of the 10 main characters), try the jump D>J and see what i mean.
(03-30-2014, 04:20 PM)Nyamaiku Wrote: about the taunt, try using a stepping sound(running or crouch) instead of the jack "huo!" sound.I think that Jack sound pretty much embodies "Hah! You fell for it!"
RE: [C] Walker - 2.06 - STM1993 - 05-04-2014
Hey, just found this thread recently and decided to give this character a try.
He feels great so far! I really liking his >>A, D^A and DvJ, he has excellent follow-up attacks.
>>A+A (this is a great way to stun, then grab or pause before using Super)
AAA+A + D^A (+JA) + A/DvA
AAA+A + D^A (+JA) + D^A + >>JA
Grab >A >JA (throw, dash attack; much more doable than normal LF2 characters)
>>JD^A >>JA (not too useful because AI tends to punch you before you can hit)
(note: can use DA instead of JA in midair for the same punch)
Understandably, D>J isn't complete yet as Louis' sprites are still being used. Too bad he can't use moves during grab. Initially I didn't understand why JD^A costs more mana than JDvA until I noticed its better combo potential.
Some issues I have:
![[Image: Zsn94QQ.png]](http://i.imgur.com/Zsn94QQ.png)
1) His running looks odd to me because the crotch area's borders aren't highlighted as much as when he's standing, making it look like he isn't wearing anything there.
![[Image: b8hW32E.png]](http://i.imgur.com/b8hW32E.png)
2) Left is normal max jump height. Right is just after I use JDvA. I find it very odd that the character would suddenly appear above his jump height before diving downwards.
![[Image: 2QEfVNO.png]](http://i.imgur.com/2QEfVNO.png)
3) DvJ throw - the victim will appear in the above-pictured falling frame for an instant after he lands on the ground. It looks weird because of how fast it shows up and then into normal lying frames.
RE: [C] Walker - 2.06 - Happy Clown - 05-05-2014
i'm very very sorry to say that I have modify your character walker without your permission
RE: [C] Walker - 2.06 - 支倉凍砂 - 05-10-2014
(05-04-2014, 07:40 AM)STM1993 Wrote: He feels great so far! I really liking his >>A, D^A and DvJ, he has excellent follow-up attacks.As I am a combo-fighting-game player, I am glad you find his combos interesting.
>>A+A (this is a great way to stun, then grab or pause before using Super)
AAA+A + D^A (+JA) + A/DvA
AAA+A + D^A (+JA) + D^A + >>JA
Grab >A >JA (throw, dash attack; much more doable than normal LF2 characters)
>>JD^A >>JA (not too useful because AI tends to punch you before you can hit)
(note: can use DA instead of JA in midair for the same punch)
I am however not really an ace LF2 player, so I had no idea you could add so many dash attacks to them. : O
You are aware that JD↑A is invulnerable until recovery? If you time and space it properly you cannot be punched out of it.
(05-04-2014, 07:40 AM)STM1993 Wrote: Understandably, D>J isn't complete yet as Louis' sprites are still being used. Too bad he can't use moves during grab.Are you suggesting that he should be able to do the Louis Hurricane Throw and the counter-throw as specials from his normal grab?
(05-04-2014, 07:40 AM)STM1993 Wrote: Initially I didn't understand why JD^A costs more mana than JDvA until I noticed its better combo potential.As I mentioned above, JD↑A is invulnerable until recovery, hence the greater cost. (same reason why Davis' dragon punch cost more than similar moves). Your enemy can flip after JD↑A anyway, so I wouldn't count that as combo potential.
(05-04-2014, 07:40 AM)STM1993 Wrote: Some issues I have:If I can ever get Gad back to finish Walker for me, I'll be sure to mention it.
1) His running looks odd to me because the crotch area's borders aren't highlighted as much as when he's standing, making it look like he isn't wearing anything there.
(05-04-2014, 07:40 AM)STM1993 Wrote:It is patch work, as it surely is possible to miss the enemy depending on height. As the D↑A is an anti-air, it is supposed to also work against airborne enemies where this extra height will help out (in the last patch it got a steeper angle). However, I'm not entirely sure this move will be left. It uses the same sprite as his dash attack, and I don't find it particularly interesting in its current iteration. If you have any suggestions, I'm all ears.
2) Left is normal max jump height. Right is just after I use JDvA. I find it very odd that the character would suddenly appear above his jump height before diving downwards.
(05-04-2014, 07:40 AM)STM1993 Wrote:I tried dealing with the fact that the ground smashing looks a little weird, however if I increase the bounce height the opponent can flip and that looks even worse at such a low height, so I found myself just dealing with the fact that it looks bad... for 1F.
3) DvJ throw - the victim will appear in the above-pictured falling frame for an instant after he lands on the ground. It looks weird because of how fast it shows up and then into normal lying frames.
...
The silence from my side these recent weeks isn't because I'm really busy or have lost interest... it's just that I'm not sure what I want to do with Walker at this point. Walker wasn't conceived through a coherent theme, so I'm hesitating about what to change and/or add.
My current thoughts:
1) The second air move
Because Walker actually can use special moves from his dash, I want him to have more than one special to choose from. Right now he has a steep kick. While it has some theoretical uses as a cross-over due to the nature of LF2, I find it rather useless apart from the fact it adds more damage than a regular jump attack. YinYin and Nyamaiku both seem to prefer the old ~45° angle, but I still find it uninspiring.
My latest thought was a command throw instead, something easy just for the damage and an unblockable option from his dash, that can still work as do-more-damage-than-jump-attack for the standard combo.
Another thought I had was if he could have an counterattack in the air maybe? My own testing shows that my frame 110-111 trick doesn't work if a character isn't grounded in frame 110, but maybe that front/backhurt-trick works even in air. Does anyone know?
2) His legacy
As I mention in the History in the opening post, Walker was originally a ghost character named Phantom that couldn't drink bottles (as he had no body). While, I'm not going to do that again, I was wondering if one could make Walker more... ghostly?
Maybe like after-images, or illusion moves? Would that be interesting?
RE: [C] Walker - 2.06 - YinYin - 05-10-2014
(05-10-2014, 11:51 AM)支倉凍砂 Wrote: maybe that front/backhurt-trick works even in air. Does anyone know?Yup. That's one cool thing about it.
(05-10-2014, 11:51 AM)支倉凍砂 Wrote: 2) His legacyCertainly. Would be great if his specials actually looked special.
As I mention in the History in the opening post, Walker was originally a ghost character named Phantom that couldn't drink bottles (as he had no body). While, I'm not going to do that again, I was wondering if one could make Walker more... ghostly?
Maybe like after-images, or illusion moves? Would that be interesting?
RE: [C] Walker - 2.06 - 支倉凍砂 - 05-10-2014
I don't have time to read up on the front/backhurt stuff today (ages since I worked with self-catching balls), but I'll do that tomorrow and do a experimental patch again.
(05-10-2014, 12:06 PM)YinYin Wrote:(05-10-2014, 11:51 AM)支倉凍砂 Wrote: 2) His legacyCertainly. Would be great if his specials actually looked special.
As I mention in the History in the opening post, Walker was originally a ghost character named Phantom that couldn't drink bottles (as he had no body). While, I'm not going to do that again, I was wondering if one could make Walker more... ghostly?
Maybe like after-images, or illusion moves? Would that be interesting?
Pressing D during 111 makes you teleport behind opponent?
Rather than the throw counter, a illusion dummy + an attack from behind?
Afterimage-effect on D→J?
New D→A (+A/J/D) creates different illusion (walking/running/jumping walker) + uses Rudolph's invisibility-next?
Or what would you like to see or have in mind?
RE: [C] Walker - 2.06 - STM1993 - 05-10-2014
(05-10-2014, 11:51 AM)支倉凍砂 Wrote: You are aware that JD↑A is invulnerable until recovery? If you time and space it properly you cannot be punched out of it.Huh, I didn't know that at all. Knowing that helps a lot with aiming it, which led me to finding one more combo: >>JD^A D>J (yes, you can catch the person in mid-air). In the process, I also found that there's a bug where the enemy can grab items at the beginning of the hurricane throw.
(05-10-2014, 11:51 AM)支倉凍砂 Wrote: Are you suggesting that he should be able to do the Louis Hurricane Throw and the counter-throw as specials from his normal grab?Hurricane throw yes, counter-throw no.
I find it weird if a character can use a grab move by itself but can't use it when the enemy is already grabbed, unless the grab move makes it look like the character needs to pick up some speed or something. For counter-throw, I'd like it to strictly remain a counter because the way it is performed implies the character is using the enemy's momentum against him rather than using his own strength, plus not much use for using counter-throw during grab other than to ensure the enemy stays down for a while.
That said, it'd be nice to have some special moves during grab. Having such a close combat punchy character but no special moves during grabs is awkward.
(05-10-2014, 11:51 AM)支倉凍砂 Wrote: Your enemy can flip after JD↑A anyway, so I wouldn't count that as combo potential.>>JA can still be used to hit right after the enemy lands from flipping, at least when I checked with a non-moving player Bandit.
(05-10-2014, 11:51 AM)支倉凍砂 Wrote: If I can ever get Gad back to finish Walker for me, I'll be sure to mention it.And he has a couple of pixels which are completely black in the eyes, most notable when punching, which is treated as transparent in LF2.
(05-10-2014, 11:51 AM)支倉凍砂 Wrote: I was wondering if one could make Walker more... ghostly?Sure, why not? It could also make his current moves look more impressive and if you get the sprites for it, also explain the invincibility during spectre kick.
Maybe like after-images, or illusion moves? Would that be interesting?
I suppose anything that can make the opponent double-guess works. I like the illusion dummy + attack behind as the new counter if the illusion looks like he's still blocking - the enemy won't know whether he should continue hitting when you block or he should turn and block behind himself - which would open him up if you weren't using the illusion.
RE: [C] Walker - 2.06 - YinYin - 05-10-2014
(05-10-2014, 01:05 PM)支倉凍砂 Wrote: Or what would you like to see or have in mind?
Oh I just thought of adding phantom images and other cool looking effects to the special moves he already has.
RE: [C] Walker - 2.07 - 支倉凍砂 - 05-11-2014
Oh, I went nuts again...
But first;
(05-10-2014, 02:06 PM)STM1993 Wrote: I also found that there's a bug where the enemy can grab items at the beginning of the hurricane throw.Wat? I'm pretty sure I ripped the data of Louis' throw without making any changes. o.o
Does that mean it happens just before he transforms to Louis?
(05-10-2014, 02:06 PM)STM1993 Wrote: it'd be nice to have some special moves during grab. Having such a close combat punchy character but no special moves during grabs is awkward.Nice point, I think you might like some of the things in this patch.
Yeah, I've been screwing around again because I have no idea what direction I should head in. XD
Wraith Kick is now a throw.
You can now cancel a normal catch into all of Walker's throws.
Tried making some afterimage effects, I think it looks quite nice on Phantom Dash, but I think it needs to be done in an entirely different way for Spectre Kick.
Two new illusion moves, D→/↓A and A after Spooky Guard.
Refer to patch notes for details.
Questions about each change:
Do you like it?
Does it has potential?
Can it be reworked or should it be scrapped entirely?
Download link in first post.