[C] Walker - 2.08

[YinYin]

Wouldn't a character without D→A hurt your LF2-soul? O_O

Not at all. The non-projectile D>As of Mark and Knight hurt me more than Bandit, Hunter, Jan and Firzen.

Did you try out the "hidden" taunt move I added?

No, not sure what to look for.

True that. What about adding a spinning animation, like he drills downwards?
Or would you just rather see him go straight through the opponent landing first?

Drilling sounds downright crazy and better suited for a different character. Straight through, landing first or at the same time would be better.

I'm a little skeptical to the ground based kick. Wouldn't it do the same thing as the Phantom Dash? (as in avoiding attacks through low profiling)

The Phantom Dash is a quick catch now. You could remove this property from it and add it to the slide kick, making them two very distinct moves.

edit: Also both the visuals and the input of the slide kick better suit this property than the Phantom Dash.

[支倉凍砂]

Did you try out the "hidden" taunt move I added?

No, not sure what to look for.

I mentioned it in the last patch notes. For the lulz, you can now input D↓A after a succesful counter to perform a taunt, but I would not recommend doing it unless the opponent actually is dead.

Straight through, landing first or at the same time would be better.

You got it, Wraith Kick Mark II complete.

The Phantom Dash is a quick catch now. You could remove this property from it and add it to the slide kick, making them two very distinct moves.
Also both the visuals and the input of the slide kick better suit this property than the Phantom Dash.

Is it so weird if you consider Bat's punch being completely invulnerable?
Though, it might be too strong in its current state. You even can combo it into itself.
Also, D↑A > JD↑A > delay D→J is became possible now!

With the currents itrs for the catch, I have only gotten a reverse throw once unlike 50% or so of the time before.

Slight update: https://www.dropbox.com/s/112pmx1xloot9t....06%5D.rar

[YinYin]

You got it, Wraith Kick Mark II complete.

I liked the angle it had before. It goes too fast and too straight down now.

Is it so weird if you consider Bat's punch being completely invulnerable?
Though, it might be too strong in its current state. You even can combo it into itself.
Also, D↑A > JD↑A > delay D→J is became possible now!

No, not at all. For the beginning or a short time frame inside the Phantom Dash you could have a few frames without a bdy. Just try not to have frames with an itr and no bdy. To be different the slide kick would be quite a bit slower and end in a roll. Both together would be almost like dodging with Henrys cartwheel. A rather long time to evade bigger things, except the first half does have a low bdy that can be hit and an itr.
About the recatch: think of it as something similar to Louis' continuously whirling his enemy around with +J. He can do that as long as he has mana left. Walker at least gives the opponent a chance to flip away.

[Nyamaiku]

after all these versions, i still think the movement of the uppercut move is strange(or stiff? no really sure). i got two suggestions for that move.
1) make it like Davis's DP, the character move upward with the punch itself, or
2) make it like the last hit of Davis's strafe, the character remains on the ground, but you can press J to jump(or maybe an upward phantom dash for cool dashing effect).

about dive kick, i would suggest making it a 45 angle kick with a landing. im not sure how to describe.
but here is a very old dennis edit of mine(some of my first projects: doppelgangers of the 10 main characters), try the jump D>J and see what i mean.
linky

about the taunt, try using a stepping sound(running or crouch) instead of the jack "huo!" sound. and if you have the time to try all sorts of dcing, maybe make Walker steps on the enemy if the enemy is dead. but if the enemy is still alive, he will enter broken defense frames(lose balance as the enemy gets up).
that will be real interesting. (and yeah, i love taunt moves)

[支倉凍砂]

I liked the angle it had before. It goes too fast and too straight down now.

I kind of like the new angle more, especially since it means that it is more differentiated from the dash attack.
Though I can lower the speed, it looks kind of ridiculous, yes.

No, not at all. For the beginning or a short time frame inside the Phantom Dash you could have a few frames without a bdy. Just try not to have frames with an itr and no bdy. To be different the slide kick would be quite a bit slower and end in a roll. Both together would be almost like dodging with Henrys cartwheel. A rather long time to evade bigger things, except the first half does have a low bdy that can be hit and an itr.

If I were to change the low profile, I don't think the recatch works anymore as you will get hit by the enemy thrown. I can tone it down a bit, but I don't think it would work to remove it completely.

after all these versions, i still think the movement of the uppercut move is strange(or stiff? no really sure). i got two suggestions for that move.
1) make it like Davis's DP, the character move upward with the punch itself, or
2) make it like the last hit of Davis's strafe, the character remains on the ground, but you can press J to jump(or maybe an upward phantom dash for cool dashing effect).

1) Isn't it kind of what it is now, just that it only uses one sprite for it rather than Davis' four?
I think it may be the lack of sprite inbetween charging the punch and doing the punch (i.e. frame one and two).

about dive kick, i would suggest making it a 45 angle kick with a landing. im not sure how to describe.
but here is a very old dennis edit of mine(some of my first projects: doppelgangers of the 10 main characters), try the jump D>J and see what i mean.

Kind of what it was in v2.05 but without the multihitting?

about the taunt, try using a stepping sound(running or crouch) instead of the jack "huo!" sound.

I think that Jack sound pretty much embodies "Hah! You fell for it!"

[STM1993]

Hey, just found this thread recently and decided to give this character a try.

He feels great so far! I really liking his >>A, D^A and DvJ, he has excellent follow-up attacks.
>>A+A (this is a great way to stun, then grab or pause before using Super)
AAA+A + D^A (+JA) + A/DvA
AAA+A + D^A (+JA) + D^A + >>JA
Grab >A >JA (throw, dash attack; much more doable than normal LF2 characters)
>>JD^A >>JA (not too useful because AI tends to punch you before you can hit)
(note: can use DA instead of JA in midair for the same punch)

Understandably, D>J isn't complete yet as Louis' sprites are still being used. Too bad he can't use moves during grab. Initially I didn't understand why JD^A costs more mana than JDvA until I noticed its better combo potential.

Some issues I have:

1) His running looks odd to me because the crotch area's borders aren't highlighted as much as when he's standing, making it look like he isn't wearing anything there.


2) Left is normal max jump height. Right is just after I use JDvA. I find it very odd that the character would suddenly appear above his jump height before diving downwards.


3) DvJ throw - the victim will appear in the above-pictured falling frame for an instant after he lands on the ground. It looks weird because of how fast it shows up and then into normal lying frames.

[Happy Clown]

i'm very very sorry to say that I have modify your character walker without your permission

[支倉凍砂]

He feels great so far! I really liking his >>A, D^A and DvJ, he has excellent follow-up attacks.
>>A+A (this is a great way to stun, then grab or pause before using Super)
AAA+A + D^A (+JA) + A/DvA
AAA+A + D^A (+JA) + D^A + >>JA
Grab >A >JA (throw, dash attack; much more doable than normal LF2 characters)
>>JD^A >>JA (not too useful because AI tends to punch you before you can hit)
(note: can use DA instead of JA in midair for the same punch)

As I am a combo-fighting-game player, I am glad you find his combos interesting.
I am however not really an ace LF2 player, so I had no idea you could add so many dash attacks to them. : O

You are aware that JD↑A is invulnerable until recovery? If you time and space it properly you cannot be punched out of it.

Understandably, D>J isn't complete yet as Louis' sprites are still being used. Too bad he can't use moves during grab.

Are you suggesting that he should be able to do the Louis Hurricane Throw and the counter-throw as specials from his normal grab?

Initially I didn't understand why JD^A costs more mana than JDvA until I noticed its better combo potential.

As I mentioned above, JD↑A is invulnerable until recovery, hence the greater cost. (same reason why Davis' dragon punch cost more than similar moves). Your enemy can flip after JD↑A anyway, so I wouldn't count that as combo potential.

Some issues I have:

1) His running looks odd to me because the crotch area's borders aren't highlighted as much as when he's standing, making it look like he isn't wearing anything there.

If I can ever get Gad back to finish Walker for me, I'll be sure to mention it.

2) Left is normal max jump height. Right is just after I use JDvA. I find it very odd that the character would suddenly appear above his jump height before diving downwards.

It is patch work, as it surely is possible to miss the enemy depending on height. As the D↑A is an anti-air, it is supposed to also work against airborne enemies where this extra height will help out (in the last patch it got a steeper angle). However, I'm not entirely sure this move will be left. It uses the same sprite as his dash attack, and I don't find it particularly interesting in its current iteration. If you have any suggestions, I'm all ears.

3) DvJ throw - the victim will appear in the above-pictured falling frame for an instant after he lands on the ground. It looks weird because of how fast it shows up and then into normal lying frames.

I tried dealing with the fact that the ground smashing looks a little weird, however if I increase the bounce height the opponent can flip and that looks even worse at such a low height, so I found myself just dealing with the fact that it looks bad... for 1F.


...


The silence from my side these recent weeks isn't because I'm really busy or have lost interest... it's just that I'm not sure what I want to do with Walker at this point. Walker wasn't conceived through a coherent theme, so I'm hesitating about what to change and/or add.

My current thoughts:

1) The second air move
Because Walker actually can use special moves from his dash, I want him to have more than one special to choose from. Right now he has a steep kick. While it has some theoretical uses as a cross-over due to the nature of LF2, I find it rather useless apart from the fact it adds more damage than a regular jump attack. YinYin and Nyamaiku both seem to prefer the old ~45° angle, but I still find it uninspiring.

My latest thought was a command throw instead, something easy just for the damage and an unblockable option from his dash, that can still work as do-more-damage-than-jump-attack for the standard combo.
Another thought I had was if he could have an counterattack in the air maybe? My own testing shows that my frame 110-111 trick doesn't work if a character isn't grounded in frame 110, but maybe that front/backhurt-trick works even in air. Does anyone know?

2) His legacy
As I mention in the History in the opening post, Walker was originally a ghost character named Phantom that couldn't drink bottles (as he had no body). While, I'm not going to do that again, I was wondering if one could make Walker more... ghostly?
Maybe like after-images, or illusion moves? Would that be interesting?

[YinYin]

maybe that front/backhurt-trick works even in air. Does anyone know?

Yup. That's one cool thing about it.

2) His legacy
As I mention in the History in the opening post, Walker was originally a ghost character named Phantom that couldn't drink bottles (as he had no body). While, I'm not going to do that again, I was wondering if one could make Walker more... ghostly?
Maybe like after-images, or illusion moves? Would that be interesting?

Certainly. Would be great if his specials actually looked special.

[支倉凍砂]

I don't have time to read up on the front/backhurt stuff today (ages since I worked with self-catching balls), but I'll do that tomorrow and do a experimental patch again.

2) His legacy
As I mention in the History in the opening post, Walker was originally a ghost character named Phantom that couldn't drink bottles (as he had no body). While, I'm not going to do that again, I was wondering if one could make Walker more... ghostly?
Maybe like after-images, or illusion moves? Would that be interesting?

Certainly. Would be great if his specials actually looked special.

Pressing D during 111 makes you teleport behind opponent?
Rather than the throw counter, a illusion dummy + an attack from behind?
Afterimage-effect on D→J?
New D→A (+A/J/D) creates different illusion (walking/running/jumping walker) + uses Rudolph's invisibility-next?
Or what would you like to see or have in mind?