[CHAR] Sile - The Crimson Princess

[Alblaka]

Version 1.10

A long time ago in a thread far, far away....
... I presented my last character and now I finally determined that it was time for a new one.

Accordingly, I present you Sile - The Crimson Princess, a
vampiric spellcaster
bloodsucking goth lady
jan-recolor
magical circle-thingy user
.

Some mentioneable facts:
Sile was created in a total of three days (1 brainstorming, 2 coding/spriting), which is a new personal record for me.
And even though she doesn't contain an ueber-complex-leet-awesome DCing trick past the casual AdvancedDC, she is nontheless a char of (hopefully) respectable quality. Except for the sprites of course, my sprites suck, everybody knows that.
She fills the role of a mid-ranged support/kite spellcaster, offering a versatile, interesting and tactical playstyle. As well, she is credit to team.
As usually, you can find more details in the Readme.txt included in the download.

Speaking of which, here you go:
http://www41.zippyshare.com/v/23723161/file.html

And for those who didn't download the char by now, here's some minor input to stimulate your optical receptors:

Screenshots (Click to View)

Soul Beam
Clean the field of enemies and injuries in one go.


Haunting Spirits
Release the dogs! Or hungry underworld souls, it's all alike.


Gates of Babylon
And why exactly do they call an exploding magical mine after an ancient city?


Batransform
Because sucking blood isn't enough of a cliche.


Possession
What was yours now is mine, what was mine stays mine.

Includes a custom AS-AI file to give your Sile some advanced understanding of how her moveset works.
Watch your blood healthbar, or you might find it... drained.


As well I'm having a few issues/bugs/problems with this chracter I couldn't properly resolve by myself so far.
I'm putting them here in case somebody finds a good solution:

Bugs & Issues (Click to View)

Soul Beam may heal enemies that are unhitable (f.e. after getting up from their lying frames) due to itr/kind:8 not using any IFF and the first itr(/kind:0) not hitting a target.

Possession is pretty flawed per se:
Inititally, there is the issue of keeping the original enemy 'stored'. I did it with a normal catching ball, but this method has the issue of the enemy still being 'present' on the battlefield, attracting allies who will attempt to punch the enemy's shadow. I tried semi-resolving this by having the ball hold the enemy far outside the reachable battlefield, but this, in reverse, caused the ball to leave the bounds of the battlefield.
As well, the de-possession will not properly return the enemy if Sile retransform to far away from the initial possession location. I'm sure I'm just missing something, since previous of my characters had no such issues whilst using wide-ranged itr/kind:8 interactions.

The hardcoded healing mechanics (itr/kind:8 with injury > 0) of LF2 are annoying to begin with: Every new itr/king:8 will 'reset' the healing amount.
If you apply one 100 and one 5, your character will heal 5. Or even zero, if the last applied itr/kind:8 contains injury:0.
This made the Shield of Vanguard skill a pain to code. Inititally, I wanted every 'shield' to heal the character by 10 once it dissipates (without hitting or blocking). But since the Glyph keeps sticking to the character, it will constantly override any healing.
I resolved it by giving all kind:8's related to this move a injury: 1 (aka, barely healing, but your healthbar will keep flashing) and then have the final dissipating shield heal for a large amount. This as well resolves the issue of the glyph 'healing' (barely, only visual) enemies it's chasing, but it's not the best solution.

Looking forward to any of your comments, critique, discussions and reviews.
(Unless they complain about the sprites...)

[Zabobula]

Sounds like my kinda woman. Good work!

[YinYin]

Sile was created in a total of three days (1 brainstorming, 2 coding/spriting), which is a new personal record for me.

Cool - aim for 1 day next round (don't consider brainstorming though - do take more time on that - weeks/months, doesn't matter). Tip: use less objects - managing that many object files probably takes a lot of time you could spend on other things. Also maybe consider doing 4 special moves instead of 7, just once. The time you save on not implementing 3 of your initial brainstorming can be spend on perfecting and connecting the other 4. (also you will be able to select the best ones instead of cramming in all the stuff that doesn't actually work right)

And even though she doesn't contain an ueber-complex-leet-awesome DCing trick past the casual AdvancedDC, she is nontheless a char of (hopefully) respectable quality.

Not even "advancedDC" is required for respectable quality.

Except for the sprites of course, my sprites suck, everybody knows that.

Collaborate please? Are you perhaps already helping out DesignHeaven with Earth? I think you'd be great for the job. (and maybe have him sprite your next character)

Soul Beam
Why do you allow z control on a beam? It looks horrible.
Haunting Spirits
Meh.
Gates of Babylon
Cool. Except it looks like it's supposed to be a flat mark on the ground. Instead it has a shadow and you can walk behind it.
Shield of Vanguard
Meh.
Drain Life
Cool except for how stationary it makes you (and how seemingly useless it becomes when you cancel even though it caught an opponent).
Batransform
Meh.
Possession
Blargh. I'd salute you if it were stable.

I tried semi-resolving this by having the ball hold the enemy far outside the reachable battlefield, but this, in reverse, caused the ball to leave the bounds of the battlefield.

A high x just like the y for the cpoint seems to be at least a little better.

I have managed to transform into the opponent and still have him around (not caught) on my second attempt at using this. Maybe you should drop possession as long as you don't edit all characters.

Overall not my cup of tea.

[Alblaka]

Cool - aim for 1 day next round (don't consider brainstorming though - do take more time on that - weeks/months, doesn't matter). Tip: use less objects - managing that many object files probably takes a lot of time you could spend on other things. Also maybe consider doing 4 special moves instead of 7, just once. The time you save on not implementing 3 of your initial brainstorming can be spend on perfecting and connecting the other 4. (also you will be able to select the best ones instead of cramming in all the stuff that doesn't actually work right)

Speed challenge :P not accepted. I can't really go much faster without losing out on what I consider quality. Depending on the character the recoloring alone takes 0-3 hours. I could cut down on the special moves, but somehow I'm a true fan of having AT LEAST 7 moves in a character (Cleric? :P). I just feel like a character with only 1 projectile, 1 standard combo and 1 teleport is too plain. If it's a genuine sprited character, it may be fine (since it's more of a graphical incentive), but for my recolors I need to compensate with gameplay content (imo).

Soul Beam
Why do you allow z control on a beam? It looks horrible.

Because I forgot to disable it XD
Noted, though I first need to figure out how to fix that.

Gates of Babylon
Cool. Except it looks like it's supposed to be a flat mark on the ground. Instead it has a shadow and you can walk behind it.

Shadow can't be avoided as it needs to be a state:3000+T3 for the object detection.
Regarding the overlap issue, I TRIED to fix it by moving the actual object below the ground, but that didn't help (so far). I could possibly try seperating trigger and circle, then move the circle backwards by ~10 px, but that would both bug on the upper border and be a pain to coordinate.
If you got a suggestion, I'm open.

Drain Life
Cool except for how stationary it makes you (and how seemingly useless it becomes when you cancel even though it caught an opponent).

Wouldn't a instant-catching projectile (which cannot be blocked), that grants you a stream of healing whilst you stay fully mobile sort of overpowered? I figured the stationary-ness would balance the low-cost/hard-to-avoid/medium-heal factor.
As well, how is a ~2-3 second stun 'useless'?
You can pull off quite some evil combinations by casting D>JJ, f.e. placing a Babylon at the enemies feet or start punching him.

Possession
Blargh. I'd salute you if it were stable.

Working on it, but with the restriction of not modifying other characters, it IS a challenging task.

I have managed to transform into the opponent and still have him around (not caught) on my second attempt at using this.

I imagine this could happen on a modded char who can free himself from frames 130-132 (like my Trio Mortale's Rim), but otherwise I can't say I've seen that specific issue yet. Unless you stayed transform for considerable time, there's a 2-minute time out mechanism in the catch (I'm a CS student, I can't have the possibility of you dieing whilst transformed and then causing an enemy to be immortal).

Collaborate please? Are you perhaps already helping out DesignHeaven with Earth? I think you'd be great for the job. (and maybe have him sprite your next character)

Sadly I suck at working in a group larger then one person. Probably I'm just to egocentric or something. The only 'collab' I've ever done was PF spriting 2 rudolph punching frames for Dokum.
I think the main issue is that I usually create quite strict plans for my characters and I doubt anyone would be willing to 'just sprite' without actually designing the character itself.
On the other hand, I don't really like to 'just DC' to some given sprites, either. I was involved in one of the anime-mods earlier and given a sprite sheet, but couldn't get myself interested into coding a character along a fixed spriteset (even though I could have mashed up the sprites to whatever I wanted).

Though yeah, if, at some point, I could combine my DC with a proper spriter's sprite... 8) Domination of LF2Planet downloads, ENGAGE!

Overall not my cup of tea.

Oh well, at least that's a better result then 'YOU SHALL NOT PASS'.
Thanks for the critique.

[Electric2Shock]

I should be judging the book by its cover and say its bad.
But then I noticed this:

And I know better than to do that.

[YinYin]

I just feel like a character with only 1 projectile, 1 standard combo and 1 teleport is too plain. If it's a genuine sprited character, it may be fine (since it's more of a graphical incentive), but for my recolors I need to compensate with gameplay content (imo).

I understand where you are coming from, but that compensation however doesn't work when you consider the gameplay. First of all you only listed 3 "standard" moves - for a normal hero you still got the 4th. Second, such a character is only plain if the moves he has aren't connectable (that includes basic attacks).
4 moves can be a lot more than their sum if you can combine them creatively. 7 moves that don't connect with anything the character can do will always remain just 7 moves.

Maybe you could show me how your 7 moves work together?

Shadow can't be avoided as it needs to be a state:3000+T3 for the object detection.
Regarding the overlap issue, I TRIED to fix it by moving the actual object below the ground, but that didn't help (so far). I could possibly try seperating trigger and circle, then move the circle backwards by ~10 px, but that would both bug on the upper border and be a pain to coordinate.
If you got a suggestion, I'm open.

If you are just detecting type 0 you don't need state 3000 (think kind 9). For the graphical side I suggest to make it thinner (closer to the shadow height) and use a fitting centery (not actually spawning the object below ground). If you don't like the idea of making it thinner maybe just try to add some perspective to it so the circle half in the background is smaller than the one in the foreground.

Wouldn't a instant-catching projectile (which cannot be blocked), that grants you a stream of healing whilst you stay fully mobile sort of overpowered? I figured the stationary-ness would balance the low-cost/hard-to-avoid/medium-heal factor.
As well, how is a ~2-3 second stun 'useless'?
You can pull off quite some evil combinations by casting D>JJ, f.e. placing a Babylon at the enemies feet or start punching him.

Yes it would be. Maybe a short chase or some z control would loosen this up a bit. Also I meant useless in terms of it's original intend, as you are still running through or standing right inside the blood/energy stream without gaining anything. (the stun time is of course useful but you can stun an opponent with about anything so why use this?)

Working on it, but with the restriction of not modifying other characters, it IS a challenging task.

Impossible I say. And you say there is no ueber-complex DCing involved ... where exactly do you draw the line for that stuff?

I imagine this could happen on a modded char who can free himself from frames 130-132 (like my Trio Mortale's Rim), but otherwise I can't say I've seen that specific issue yet. Unless you stayed transform for considerable time, there's a 2-minute time out mechanism in the catch (I'm a CS student, I can't have the possibility of you dieing whilst transformed and then causing an enemy to be immortal).

It happened on a human controlled (idle) Henry.

I doubt anyone would be willing to 'just sprite' without actually designing the character itself.
On the other hand, I don't really like to 'just DC' to some given sprites, either.

That's why it's called collaboration. Both can design the character, inspire each other, discuss the pros and cons of every detail to find the perfect extreme.

[8obis]

Being a sprite critic since I know nothing about DCing, I usually look down on recoloured character. But I've loved every single one of your characters, this isn't an exception.

[Alblaka]

I understand where you are coming from, but that compensation however doesn't work when you consider the gameplay. First of all you only listed 3 "standard" moves - for a normal hero you still got the 4th. Second, such a character is only plain if the moves he has aren't connectable (that includes basic attacks).
4 moves can be a lot more than their sum if you can combine them creatively. 7 moves that don't connect with anything the character can do will always remain just 7 moves.

Maybe you could show me how your 7 moves work together?

You definitely got a point there. My problem is, I was never great at using nor designing combo's. Maybe I should put that in the focus of a future character, I've yet to design.

In Sile's case, the best combo I can think of is probaly D>JJ DvA AAA at melee range. Alternatively something like AAA D^AAA can deal some fun damage, too. But whenever you land a full AAA, you're usually better off using the chance to go for the grapple to regain health.
Oh, or you just posess a char like Davis and use his combos :P

If you are just detecting type 0 you don't need state 3000 (think kind 9).

1. It's supposed NOT to trigger on allied T0's
2. It's supposed to trigger and destroy incoming projectiles (f.e. John Disc)
I could maybe decide to drop 2 if I find a shadowless way for 1, but afaik there isn't one that does contain IFF.

For the graphical side I suggest to make it thinner (closer to the shadow height) and use a fitting centery (not actually spawning the object below ground).

centery 0, spawned at ground level with a x px backset on z axis could work. Would cause a misposition if cast next to upper border, but nothing too serious.

Yes it would be. Maybe a short chase or some z control would loosen this up a bit.

How would adding chase/zcontrol (aka making it easier to hit) make the move less powerful? I think I missunderstood you there.

Impossible I say. And you say there is no ueber-complex DCing involved ... where exactly do you draw the line for that stuff?

It's just a transformation+an T3 catching a character. If AdvancedDC is a 2, that move would be a 1.6ish to me. Uebercomplex is at least 4. F.e. Eta's weapon-interaction could be something towards 2-3 and the Ninja Tales combo system is probably around 3.
Uebercomplex DC is something I need more then 2 hours for (and I barely needed 2 hours per move), I think.

It happened on a human controlled (idle) Henry.

I'm clueless then. If you find any further indicator towards the circumstances the bug is related to, note me.

That's why it's called collaboration. Both can design the character, inspire each other, discuss the pros and cons of every detail to find the perfect extreme.

Which again collides with my mentioned tendancy to plan everything entirely in advance with little space for someone else to add his design ^^'

[Gespenst]

About design if its gets resprited.
What do you think guys?
Maybe show our ideas to help albaka to decide? Huh?
Here is mine
dont mention head. Sucked that part

[YinYin]

1. It's supposed NOT to trigger on allied T0's
2. It's supposed to trigger and destroy incoming projectiles (f.e. John Disc)

1. Johns kind 9 shield itr does not trigger on allies
2. shadow less state 3005 destroys his disc - a simultaneous trigger might be achieved with a bdy in parallel

Would cause a misposition if cast next to upper border, but nothing too serious.

Sounds major to me

How would adding chase/zcontrol (aka making it easier to hit) make the move less powerful? I think I missunderstood you there.

I never complained about it being too powerful. I just complained about it being too static. You perform it and wait for it to work or cancel it and waste the boost. There is not much user control involved - very little choices to making it work other than doing it at the right time. If you were able to either aim it or move and still reap benefits that would greatly increase the usability of it.

Uebercomplex DC is something I need more then 2 hours for (and I barely needed 2 hours per move), I think.

That explains everything. A fully custom character base from scratch should fall into that category then (y'know: bdys, itrs, wpoints, bpoints ... custom actions on each basic attack ...)?

Which again collides with my mentioned tendancy to plan everything entirely in advance with little space for someone else to add his design ^^'

You've got a lot of room for improvement on all of your stuff - especially once you get to work with custom graphics. You just gotta allow yourself to admit this before you lock your stubborn mode on forever.