[solved] HP-Based Moves

[1477]

This topic has been approached many times, but all the solutions to this question seem not to work for me. I've searched both the mainsite and forums, and read all posts regarding this question. I'm trying to make my character do a stronger move when he has 1/3 or less HP, but all the methods mentioned on LF-EMPIRE don't seem to work. Here's why (I think) the following methods don't work.

Azriel's Privilege Method:

There's always the possibility that I may have interpreted this method wrong, but this method I'm pretty sure I got it right (especially since it's based around a pretty simple concept). This method does not work when the move is based around the idea of a stronger attack at low hp. For example, when the 'attack' or 'hit_a:' move is a stronger move than D>A, then the character can create a stronger attack by simply spamming 'hit_a:' or 'attack' instead of D>A.

Also, the relationship between 'hit_a:' (move2 in his tutorial) and punch doesn't work. If you set punch to mp: 0 (or no mp tag) and 'hit_a:' to, say mp: 10000, if you have less than 100 hp, the character will simply do nothing (punch priority is not activated), or if you use this method to alternate a 'D>A' move (like Azriel suggested) instead of a normal attack move the character will simply continue in defend frames and then return to 'standing'.

Blue Phoenix's Method
I don't know how MDA managed to do it, but when I tried Blue Phoenix's method (I quadruple-checked to make I did everything right, too), it failed. Maybe my interpretation of his method is wrong.

My Interpretation:
You're supposed to put the 'mp tag' (say, mp: 20000) on the first frame of the attack, right? On this exact frame, you're also supposed to put a value for 'hit_d:' (say, hit_d: 250), and the 'next:' is supposed to continue the attack. Supposedly, if requirements are fulfilled (if you have 200 life or more), then you will continue with the original move (via the value of 'next:'). If requirements aren't fulfilled, the frame indicated by the number value of 'hit_d:' is supposed to be activated?.

Problem:
Again, maybe my interpretation is wrong (because MDA supposedly accomplished this method successfully), but if the requirements (in this case, less than 200 hp) aren't fulfilled, nothing happens. The first frame with the 'mp tag' isn't even activated.
I think 'hit_d:' frames are only activated if you don't fulfill MP requirements from the second frame onwards of the attack (with the lose-MP numbers having a negative value like 'mp: -25'). It was originally used for continuous attacks (like firzen's beam). Also, negative MP-values only work on MP. They do not suck up HP if you set an XXYYY number (where 'XX'*10 equals HP taken and 'YYY' equals to MP taken)

Concluding Questions:

Are my interpretations of the above two methods wrong? If so, how so?

How do I create an alternate, stronger move for my character if he has less than a certain amount of hp (like louis's transformation)?

~Solomon Leung

[Alblaka]

You forgot some points, the solutions is easy:

Take an amount like 200 as the required maximm of hp (so about 40% of health). Make the move having in it's first frame the mp-tag: 20000. But the next frame of this move gets placed IN HIT_D:, not in NEXT: !
If you don't have 200 hp, the system will guide you to "alternate attack", so hit_d, which would be your special attack. Otherwise, it will subtract 200 hp drom you (ouc) and send you to the next-frame.

I would recommend to either put a 200hp-healing move in there OR a kinda warning-move: "Hey, don't use this attack with more then 200 hp !" XD

That's it, i guess...


Btw, if someone could remind me, on how exactly a selfhit-heal-move is working, pls do it >.< I'm desparing on DCing such an effect atm >.>
edit: MY Problem solved, my Zombies will now regain hp while infecting opponents... creepy solution, but works...

[Azriel]

just tested my theory. works with hit_Fa: and hit_a:. so if u have a 2 moves with hit_Fa: and hit_a: both in the same frame, the hit_Fa: will have higher priority, and hit_a: next. that means u should force the hit_Fa:. appreantly u can't, so the only thing that works for it is hit_ja: and hit_a:. you can force the DJA by doing a hit_d, hit_j, hit_ja/hit_a frame. that'll work.

doesn't work with the sourcecode thingy. my apologies.



Azriel~

[1477]

@Alblaka
I'm pretty sure that I know what you're talking about, but I'm sure I didn't forget those points, and the whole solution still doesn't work.

My Interpretation Summarized:
You're supposed to input the beginning frame of the special attack after the 'hit_d:' on the frame with the 'MP-tag' (in this case the frame with 'mp: 20000'), right?

Problem:
The problem with this is that if the HP-requirements cannot be fulfilled, the frame with the 'MP-tag' isn't even activated. The character doesn't even enter that frame. Nothing happens at all.

Have you tried using this method before? If so, you should see what I mean .


@Azriel

To put it shortly, your method doesn't stop players from spamming the secondary 'hit_a:' priority move when they figure it out instead of the supposed 'hit_Fa:' move (especially when the second-priority move is supposed to be much stronger) .


@topic
If my question is still confusing up to the point where it requires this, I can post the coding of my character on Friday (tomorrow). I'm at school at the moment and can't access internet from another source until Friday. I think it would be easier this way so that readers of this topic can actually see the mistakes (if there are any ) in my coding instead of having everybody guess the mistakes in my interpretation. But still...

Concluding Questions (Again ):

Are my interpretations of the above two methods still wrong? If so, how so?

How do I create an alternate, stronger move for my character if he has less than a certain amount of hp (like louis's transformation)?

~Solomon Leung

[Azriel]

told u, u can force the DJA, so they have to press D,J,A in that order. use wait: 2s coz that means if they try and do DJJA or something it won't register, so the DJA is still read as that (though i have found a way to break it, don't know if anyone else has). I once had this bandit that could transform into hunter under 200 hp (u can set it), but it had that negative injury hp regain bug.



Azriel~

[1477]

@Azriel:

told u, u can force the DJA, so they have to press D,J,A in that order. use wait: 2s coz that means if they try and do DJJA or something it won't register, so the DJA is still read as that.

Earlier Post
you can force the DJA by doing a hit_d, hit_j, hit_ja/hit_a frame. that'll work.

The explanation of your solution seems to be a lot more vague than your other answers (at least to my questions ).

After you create a 'hit_d:' frame and then a 'hit_j:' frame, you are supposed to add on the two tags: 'hit_a: ###' and 'hit_ja: ###', in the 'hit_j:' frame, right?

Problem?:

If, on the 'hit_j:' frame, you're supposed to create a 'hit_ja:' tag for first priority, and a 'hit_a:' frame for second priority, then this means that the player would have to press 'D-J-DJA' to do the first priority/normal move (and not DJA as planned). Only when you don't fulfill the 200 HP requirement would you enter the alternative/special frame as a second priority.

In addition, if you create a 'hit_a:' tag on the 'hit_j:' frame, that doesn't stop people from figuring out that they can do the secondary priority move by simply pressing 'D-J-A'.

Therefore, you still can't really "force the 'DJA'".
Is this true, or am I misinterpreting something?

*************************************************************************************************
EDIT: I got the coding!

@Topic
This is an HP-Based move attempt using Blue Phoenix's method. Please review my coding. If there are any problems, please tell me how I can correct/improve it.

Code:

HP-Based D>A Attack Attempt Using Blue Phoenix's Method (Not Working)

*************Normal Attack*************

~vv /!\ IMPORTANT FRAME vv~
<frame> 235 D>A Normal (1st Priority)
pic: 132 state: 3 wait: 1 next: 236 dvx: 0 dvy: 0 dvz: 0 centerx: 25 centery: 79 hit_a: 0 **>hit_d: 245<** hit_j: 0 mp: 20000
   wpoint:
      kind: 1  x: 6  y: 47  weaponact: 35  attacking: 0  cover: 0  dvx: 0  dvy: 0  dvz: 0
   wpoint_end:
   bdy:
      kind: 0  x: 8  y: 39  w: 61  h: 23
   bdy_end:
   bdy:
      kind: 0  x: 11  y: 12  w: 34  h: 66
   bdy_end:
<frame_end>
~^^ /!\ IMPORTANT FRAME ^^~

<frame> 236 D>A Normal (1st Priority)
   pic: 133  state: 3  wait: 1  next: 237  dvx: 0  dvy: 0  dvz: 0  centerx: 24  centery: 79  hit_a: 0  hit_d: 0  hit_j: 0
   [Heal-Ball]
   opoint:
      kind: 1  x: 40  y: 40  action: 0  dvx: 0  dvy: 0  oid: 1477  facing: 0
   opoint_end:
   [Heal-Ball_End]
   wpoint:
      kind: 1  x: 5  y: 48  weaponact: 35  attacking: 0  cover: 0  dvx: 0  dvy: 0  dvz: 0
   wpoint_end:
   bdy:
      kind: 0  x: 8  y: 39  w: 61  h: 23
   bdy_end:
   bdy:
      kind: 0  x: 9  y: 13  w: 33  h: 66
   bdy_end:
<frame_end>

*************Alternate/Second Priority Attack (Frame 245)*************

<frame> 245 D>A Special (2nd Priority)
   pic: 132  state: 3  wait: 1  next: 246  dvx: 0  dvy: 0  dvz: 0  centerx: 24  centery: 79  hit_a: 0  hit_d: 0  hit_j: 0
   wpoint:
      kind: 1  x: 5  y: 48  weaponact: 35  attacking: 0  cover: 0  dvx: 0  dvy: 0  dvz: 0
   wpoint_end:
   bdy:
      kind: 0  x: 8  y: 39  w: 61  h: 23
   bdy_end:
   bdy:
      kind: 0  x: 9  y: 13  w: 33  h: 66
   bdy_end:
<frame_end>

<frame> 246 D>A Special (2nd Priority)
   pic: 134  state: 3  wait: 1  next: 247  dvx: 0  dvy: 0  dvz: 0  centerx: 24  centery: 79  hit_a: 0  hit_d: 0  hit_j: 0
   wpoint:
      kind: 1  x: 5  y: 48  weaponact: 35  attacking: 0  cover: 0  dvx: 0  dvy: 0  dvz: 0
   wpoint_end:
   bdy:
      kind: 0  x: 8  y: 39  w: 61  h: 23
   bdy_end:
   bdy:
      kind: 0  x: 8  y: 12  w: 34  h: 68
   bdy_end:
<frame_end>

As I said earlier, this 'D>A' move attempts to use Blue Phoenix's Method on HP-Based attacks but fails.

Concluding Question:

Q) Is there anything wrong with the above coding in terms of utilizing Blue Phoenix's method ? If so, how so?


Thanks for Reading.

~Solomon Leung

[Azriel]

frame_1 hit_d: frame_2
frame_2 hit_j: frame_3
frame_3 hit_ja: move_1 hit_a: move_2
move_1 mp: xxyyy
move_2 mp: yyy

if u press D, J, A sequentially in that order, it will activate hit_ja:. if u can't go to hit_ja: it will activate hit_a:.

I cannot make it any simpler than that. this is based on lf2's input system. frame_2 and frame_3 would need wait: 2 (no higher no lower. it MUST be wait: 2 coz lf2 doesn't receive inputs of this nature in 2 TUs, but with 3 TUs in one frame, players can "disobey" the forced DJA). in my bandit thing i did long ago, i just made move_1 be the move_lock so that they lose hp via the mp: xxyyy tag, but make them regain it from a negative injury + a state: 17 bottle to make the dark red hp have the fix, and move_2 be the transformation.

i don't really recommend using this method for the hp based move, coz of the dark red hp thing.

actually i just thought of a sub-theory for this thing. if it works i'll post it here.

---

BP's method thingy

you need another frame.

standing/walking hit_Fa: 235
235 next: 236
236 next: 237 (first priority) mp: -100 (or some other value). hit_d: 245 hit_j: 245 (both must use this)
237 //move_1 code
245 // move_2 code

and no you cannot have any hp check with that method, coz mp: -X only works with 3 or less digits. the mp: xxyyy thing is only "activatable" from the hit_X thing.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
basically using the mp tag for hp based moves isn't my preference coz of the bugs, but it's probably the "best" other than hex. (using state: 18 ik0s look too messy in game).



Azriel~

[1477]

@Azriel
According to you, are you saying that Blue Phoenix's method only works for only 'mp-based' moves, and not 'hp-based' moves?
If so, then your solution might be the only way?

@Topic
Will the following theory mod of Blue Phoenix's method change it from working only in 'mp-based' moves to working in 'hp-based' moves as well?

Explanation of Theory:

First of all, I want to mention that this theory is rather simple, and therefore I'm not confident that it works. Even if it does, there might be a couple glitches to fix .

1) Make three frames. On the second, third, and fourth frame, tack on the MP tag 'mp: -500'.

2) On the second and third frame, tack on 'hit_d:' links to the continuation frame of the normal, 1st priority attack. This will take out all of the character's MP via 'mp: -500' and force it to continuation frame via the 'hit_d:' tag.

3) On the fourth frame, tack on a 'hit_d:' link to the start frame of the secondary/alternate special move.

2) On the continuation frame of the normal, 1st priority move (that was linked to before via the 'hit_d:' tags), tack on the MP tag 'mp: 20000' in order to take out the 200 hp.

3) If the character doesn't have 200 hp, then he'll supposedly go to the start frame of the Alternate/Special 2nd Priority Move via the 'hit_d:' link on the fourth frame indicated in "Step 1".


If you're confused, see the coding of the new HP-Based move theory below.

I would very appreciate it if people review the following coding and inform me of any mistakes, or if this theory doesn't work at all.

Code:

HP-Based D>A Attack Attempt #2 Using Blue Phoenix's Method

*************D>A Normal Attack*************

#First Frames 235-238 Takes Out All MP, Forcing (via 'hit_d:') Character To Enter Frame 245 If HP Requirements Are Met. If Not, Character Enters Frame 265 (Secondary Priority).

<frame> 235 D>A Normal (1st Priority)
pic: 132 state: 3 wait: 1 next: 236 dvx: 0 dvy: 0 dvz: 0 centerx: 25 centery: 79 hit_a: 0 hit_d: 0 hit_j: 0
   wpoint:
      kind: 1  x: 6  y: 47  weaponact: 35  attacking: 0  cover: 0  dvx: 0  dvy: 0  dvz: 0
   wpoint_end:
   bdy:
      kind: 0  x: 8  y: 39  w: 61  h: 23
   bdy_end:
   bdy:
      kind: 0  x: 11  y: 12  w: 34  h: 66
   bdy_end:
<frame_end>

<frame> 236 D>A Normal (1st Priority)
   pic: 133 state: 3 wait: 1  next: 237  dvx: 0  dvy: 0  dvz: 0  centerx: 24 centery: 79 hit_a: 0 >hit_d: 245<  >hit_j: 245<  >mp: -500<
   wpoint:
      kind: 1  x: 5  y: 48  weaponact: 35  attacking: 0  cover: 0  dvx: 0  dvy: 0  dvz: 0
   wpoint_end:
   bdy:
      kind: 0  x: 8  y: 39  w: 61  h: 23
   bdy_end:
   bdy:
      kind: 0  x: 9  y: 13  w: 33  h: 66
   bdy_end:
<frame_end>

<frame> 237 D>A Normal (1st Priority)
pic: 133 state: 3 wait: 1 next: 238 dvx: 0 dvy: 0  dvz: 0 centerx: 24 centery: 79 hit_a: 0 >hit_d: 245<  >hit_j: 245<  >mp: -500<
   wpoint:
      kind: 1  x: 5  y: 48  weaponact: 35  attacking: 0  cover: 0  dvx: 0  dvy: 0  dvz: 0
   wpoint_end:
   bdy:
      kind: 0  x: 8  y: 39  w: 61  h: 23
   bdy_end:
   bdy:
      kind: 0  x: 9  y: 13  w: 33  h: 66
   bdy_end:
<frame_end>

<frame> 238 D>A Normal (1st Priority)
pic: 133 state: 3 wait: 1 next: 239 dvx: 0 dvy: 0 dvz: 0 centerx: 24 centery: 79 hit_a: 0 >hit_d: 265<  >hit_j: 265<  >mp: -500<
   wpoint:
      kind: 1  x: 5  y: 48  weaponact: 35  attacking: 0  cover: 0  dvx: 0  dvy: 0  dvz: 0
   wpoint_end:
   bdy:
      kind: 0  x: 8  y: 39  w: 61  h: 23
   bdy_end:
   bdy:
      kind: 0  x: 9  y: 13  w: 33  h: 66
   bdy_end:
<frame_end>

#Frame 245 Takes Out 200 HP

<frame> 245 D>A Normal (1st Priority)
   pic: 132 state: 3  wait: 1  next: 246  dvx: 0  dvy: 0  dvz: 0  centerx: 24  centery: 79  hit_a: 0  hit_d: 0  hit_j: 0  >mp: 20000<
   wpoint:
      kind: 1  x: 5  y: 48  weaponact: 35  attacking: 0  cover: 0  dvx: 0  dvy: 0  dvz: 0
   wpoint_end:
   bdy:
      kind: 0  x: 8  y: 39  w: 61  h: 23
   bdy_end:
   bdy:
      kind: 0  x: 9  y: 13  w: 33  h: 66
   bdy_end:
<frame_end>

<frame> 246 D>A Normal (1st Priority)
pic: 134 state: 3 wait: 1 next: 247 dvx: 0 dvy: 0 dvz: 0 centerx: 24 centery: 79 hit_a: 0  >hit_d: 255<  >hit_j: 255<  >mp: -50< (Brings Character to the Frame 255 via 'hit_d:' tag)
   wpoint:
      kind: 1  x: 5  y: 48  weaponact: 35  attacking: 0  cover: 0  dvx: 0  dvy: 0  dvz: 0
   wpoint_end:
   bdy:
      kind: 0  x: 8  y: 39  w: 61  h: 23
   bdy_end:
   bdy:
      kind: 0  x: 8  y: 12  w: 34  h: 68
   bdy_end:
<frame_end>

#Frame 255 Restores Life and MP to What It Was Before Move

<frame> 255 D>A Normal (1st Priority)
pic: 132  state: 3  wait: 1  next: 256  dvx: 0  dvy: 0  dvz: 0  centerx: 24  centery: 79  hit_a: 0  hit_d: 0  hit_j: 0  >mp: -20500< (Returns Life and MP)
   wpoint:
      kind: 1  x: 5  y: 48  weaponact: 35  attacking: 0  cover: 0  dvx: 0  dvy: 0  dvz: 0
   wpoint_end:
   bdy:
      kind: 0  x: 8  y: 39  w: 61  h: 23
   bdy_end:
   bdy:
      kind: 0  x: 9  y: 13  w: 33  h: 66
   bdy_end:
<frame_end>

#Continuation of 'D>A Normal' Move

<frame> 256 D>A Normal
   pic: 134 state: 3 wait: 1  next: 257  dvx: 0  dvy: 0  dvz: 0  centerx: 24 centery: 79 hit_a: 0  hit_j: 0
   wpoint:
      kind: 1  x: 5  y: 48  weaponact: 35  attacking: 0  cover: 0  dvx: 0  dvy: 0  dvz: 0
   wpoint_end:
   bdy:
      kind: 0  x: 8  y: 39  w: 61  h: 23
   bdy_end:
   bdy:
      kind: 0  x: 8  y: 12  w: 34  h: 68
   bdy_end:
<frame_end>

*************D>A Alternate/Special Attack*************

#D>A Special/Alternate Attack (2nd Priority)

<frame> 265 D>A Special (2nd Priority)
   pic: 134 state: 3 wait: 1  next: 266  dvx: 0  dvy: 0  dvz: 0  centerx: 24 centery: 79 hit_a: 0  hit_j: 0
   wpoint:
      kind: 1  x: 5  y: 48  weaponact: 35  attacking: 0  cover: 0  dvx: 0  dvy: 0  dvz: 0
   wpoint_end:
   bdy:
      kind: 0  x: 8  y: 39  w: 61  h: 23
   bdy_end:
   bdy:
      kind: 0  x: 8  y: 12  w: 34  h: 68
   bdy_end:
<frame_end>

#Continuation of D>A Special Attack (2nd Priority)

<frame> 266 D>A Special (2nd Priority)
   pic: 134 state: 3 wait: 1  next: 267  dvx: 0  dvy: 0  dvz: 0  centerx: 24 centery: 79 hit_a: 0  hit_j: 0
   wpoint:
      kind: 1  x: 5  y: 48  weaponact: 35  attacking: 0  cover: 0  dvx: 0  dvy: 0  dvz: 0
   wpoint_end:
   bdy:
      kind: 0  x: 8  y: 39  w: 61  h: 23
   bdy_end:
   bdy:
      kind: 0  x: 8  y: 12  w: 34  h: 68
   bdy_end:
<frame_end>

Again, please review the above coding and inform me of any mistakes, or if this theory is completely crap .

Again, thanks for reading.

*******************************************************************************************************
EDIT: Theory tested. It's complete crap .

Conclusion:

The only working 'HP-Based' move system is 'Azriel's HP/MP Privilege System'. I'm using that system now myself . Blue Phoenix's method only works for 'MP-Based' moves.

In addition, among all the different moves available in the game, 'Azriel's HP/MP Privilege System' only works for the move 'DJA'. The details and the tutorial on how to create this system is posted on Azriel's last post.

Problem/Topic Solved.

EDIT (1 month later): Why hasn't this thread been moved to the 'Solved Problems' section? It's been such a long time since it has been solved.

~Solomon Leung