LF-Empire Client

[NightmareX1337]

Maybe just maybe if people stopped creating insallers for their 3 MB standalone apps then we could talk. Maybe.

[Luigi600]

Maybe just maybe if people stopped creating insallers for their 3 MB standalone apps then we could talk. Maybe.

The installer has a size of 30 MB. Justifiably.
First: this version needs 4 libraries, so it is not a standalone app.
Second: the installer has this size, because I want not overload the servers of LFE. That is a safety measure.

I can understand you with your criticism, but I will not explain how an user install the client with 4 libraries + about 25 MB appData files and I want not be the reason, why LFE will close.

[NightmareX1337]

The installer has a size of 30 MB. Justifiably.

No. Actually this is worse. You managed to make download size even bigger by creating an installer. Great job.
Btw don't attempt to code your own installer because well.. Just don't.

First: this version needs 4 libraries, so it is not a standalone app.

Also no.

Second: the installer has this size, because I want not overload the servers of LFE. That is a safety measure.

Nonsense.

I can understand you with your criticism, but I will not explain how an user install the client with 4 libraries + about 25 MB appData files and I want not be the reason, why LFE will close.

Packing web pages into your installer is a stupid solution to a nonexistent problem.


You should really understand this basic thing: Just because your application pulls data from LFE is not something that can be a problem enough to get LFE closed or anything like that.

[Luigi600]

No. Actually this is worse. You managed to make download size even bigger by creating an installer. Great job.
Btw don't attempt to code your own installer because well.. Just don't.

The size is not "bigger" because else the client must download the html files (he can it). So the user MUST download 30 MB. It is not important to which time.

Also no.

Just one link for you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standalone_software
"Software that is not a part of some bundled software"

Nonsense.

Packing web pages into your installer is a stupid solution to a nonexistent problem.

that can be a problem enough to get LFE closed or anything like that.

The LFE closing was an exaggeration. But okay lets calculating:
The client has 350+ downloads.
When each user must download 30 MB HTML sites:
350 * 30 = 10500 MB (=10,25 GB)
now I take that each user has 4 downloads (somepeople none, other people 10 what ever)
One download has a size of 1.236 MB, generally speaking.
Each user downloading 4,94 MB
350 * 4,94 = 1730 MB (= 1,7 GB)


I don't have any idea about download traffic pact from LFE server. But 10 GB are borderline for cheap services. Okay yes LFE must reckon with this, but on the other hand i think that people download more with the client, because it is faster.
EDIT: of course it is not each month 10GB download traffic with this client.

And in the end:

Btw don't attempt to code your own installer because well.. Just don't.

We are both not native speakers in english, but what you want say? That I don't should create a client? Furthermore, the client is more as html sites downloader + parser. He can install and uninstall mods. Please deal with my client except superficial.

Also nice from you, that you omit the problem with manual installation. But i know that you will contra now, because... (read that)

[NightmareX1337]

The size is not "bigger" because else the client must download the html files (he can it). So the user MUST download 30 MB. It is not important to which time.

What? Your client takes 3.36 MB when installed and html files take 14.5 MB. Where does 15+ MB come from? Why the installer is 33.5 MB?

Just one link for you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standalone_software
"Software that is not a part of some bundled software"

So? Your application is NOT part of other software, it functions on it's own. Pointing people to a wiki without understanding what you're talking about doesn't make you right.

The LFE closing was an exaggeration. But okay lets calculating:
The client has 350+ downloads.
When each user must download 30 MB HTML sites:
350 * 30 = 10500 MB (=10,25 GB)
now I take that each user has 4 downloads (somepeople none, other people 10 what ever)
One download has a size of 1.236 MB, generally speaking.
Each user downloading 4,94 MB
350 * 4,94 = 1730 MB (= 1,7 GB)


I don't have any idea about download traffic pact from LFE server. But 10 GB are borderline for cheap services. Okay yes LFE must reckon with this, but on the other hand i think that people download more with the client, because it is faster.
EDIT: of course it is not each month 10GB download traffic with this client.

Okay. There few things you need to clarify here. 350 downloads since when? You released this app like 1 year ago and if you count all those downloads from the beginning: ~12 GB data traffic for one year? That's not even remotely high. You don't seem to know how much traffic LFE used get back when it was popular years ago.

We are both not native speakers in english, but what you want say? That I don't should create a client? Furthermore, the client is more as html sites downloader + parser. He can install and uninstall mods. Please deal with my client except superficial.

Also nice from you, that you omit the problem with manual installation. But i know that you will contra now, because... (read that)

When I say don't code your own installer I mean the "Insaller.exe". You shall not do such thing as coding your own installer/setup unless you know what you're doing. Seriously. If you desperately need one, use an existing tool that does the right thing. (NSIS, Inno Setup, WiX...)

ALRIGHT. Let's say you want to bundle html files anyway because.. Why not? You think this will make things better and that's fine. You don't need to put them into AppData/Local. There is no point in separating them just like there is no point in creating an installer. The proper thing to do would be to put 'items' folder near 'LF-Empire Client.exe' and then make the program use it that way. Here comes the important part: YOU NEED TO COMPRESS YOUR APP. Those html files shrink to **135 KB** when compressed with 7zip. I'm not joking. Your download could be around ~1.44 MB total but it's 33.5 MB. Literally all you have to do is put your html, exe and dll files in one folder and compress them. That's it. No need to waste time creating installer (and uninstaller).

We can't get anywhere if you don't change your attitude.

[Luigi600]

What? Your client takes 3.36 MB when installed and html files take 14.5 MB. Where does 15+ MB come from? Why the installer is 33.5 MB?

Okay the size is wrong. Client + Library need 5.49 MB + 14.5 MB. Although I thought that the sites have a size about 25MB - I apologize me for that and thank you for your report wrong display size.
The +15 MB are me not noticed. I have a lot of projects. I wanted finish fast with this project. I focus on Easier LF-Editor so that he is a "good software".

350 downloads since when? You released this app like 1 year ago and if you count all those downloads from the beginning: ~12 GB data traffic for one year?

Yes right. The aspect of DDoS protection is also to named. 362 HTML Files + 362 download windows sites (to get the download link) are 724 access in few seconds. Not each hoster like that.

You shall not do such thing as coding your own installer/setup unless you know what you're doing. Seriously. If you desperately need one, use an existing tool that does the right thing. (NSIS, Inno Setup, WiX...)

I don't like fall back to frameworks etc (except .NET-Framework) but double size is not okay. I agree to you with this aspect.

You don't need to put them into AppData/Local.

And that is wrong. Do you ask itself why the installer needs admin rights? The reason is that windows is stupid. The programm files folder need admin rights. If I have an application with few files (like that here), than I want put it in programm files. Each month, the client search at new downloads. The client needs write-access to "items". If I not using appData then you must start the client everytime with admin rights or i must write an extern program and that must start with admin rights. Also the "last directory" file must create. It is obvious for me that I save all program data in appData.

YOU NEED TO COMPRESS YOUR APP.

YES I UNDERSTAND YOU


The point with standalone app i can accept not still.

----------------------- EDIT -------------------------------------
HTML files shorter, Installer compressed.
Now 8.5 MB. Still to large but better.

[NightmareX1337]

The aspect of DDoS protection is also to named. 362 HTML Files + 362 download windows sites (to get the download link) are 724 access in few seconds. Not each hoster like that.

Fair point.

I don't like fall back to frameworks etc (except .NET-Framework) but double size is not okay. I agree to you with this aspect.

PLEASE. I'm trying to help. Your installer can't even create a working shortcut link and the uninstaller just throws an exception trying to delete itself. When people use existing tools it's not because they are fools.

And that is wrong. Do you ask itself why the installer needs admin rights? The reason is that windows is stupid. The programm files folder need admin rights. If I have an application with few files (like that here), than I want put it in programm files. Each month, the client search at new downloads. The client needs write-access to "items". If I not using appData then you must start the client everytime with admin rights or i must write an extern program and that must start with admin rights. Also the "last directory" file must create. It is obvious for me that I save all program data in appData.

Not really. People don't tend to extract files into "Program Files". Even if you wanned make sure it works inside that folder you could simply just check if AppData/Local/items exists and if it's not you just use the one near the exe. Then you just put newly downloaded updates inside AppData and magically everything works.

The point with standalone app i can accept not still.

Time will show.

[Luigi600]

PLEASE. I'm trying to help. Your installer can't even create a working shortcut link and the uninstaller just throws an exception trying to delete itself. When people use existing tools it's not because they are fools.

Shortcut works fine.
When people want use an installer? Nobody has fun to read a readme file to install something (when I not change my opinion to HTML sites).
The uninstaller problem: alright - i know it now.

Not really. People don't tend to extract files into "Program Files". Even if you wanned make sure it works inside that folder you could simply just check if AppData/Local/items exists and if it's not you just use the one near the exe. Then you just put newly downloaded updates inside AppData and magically everything works.

I think it is stupid to work with two folders. Else i must check, if i have write access. You work with C#, right?. I searched few years ago about "check access" and found only "try catch statement + try to create a file/folder...". This point I can check again.

[Silverthorn]

The aspect of DDoS protection is also to named. 362 HTML Files + 362 download windows sites (to get the download link) are 724 access in few seconds. Not each hoster like that.

Fair point.

Piling onto that, we had some DoS-attacks a while back. Not fun, neither for those wanting to browse the site nor for those that have to contact the help desk of the host asking to put the site back live. Nor for those that had to check the server logs for suspicious activity. Righteously so, access to 700+ sites within few seconds will look suspicious on my end... I like the caching a bit more, too. LFE is not really changing itself frequently anyways.

Not really. People don't tend to extract files into "Program Files". Even if you wanned make sure it works inside that folder you could simply just check if AppData/Local/items exists and if it's not you just use the one near the exe. Then you just put newly downloaded updates inside AppData and magically everything works.

I think it is stupid to work with two folders. Else i must check, if i have write access. You work with C#, right?. I searched few years ago about "check access" and found only "try catch statement + try to create a file/folder...". This point I can check again.
[/quote]
%appdata% is kind of what programs rely on to have some sort of data to work with nowadays, though. Or sometimes C:/VirtualStorage which is stupid. As long as the data is tied to the program (install/uninstall), then it's fine. Although I personally do prefer portable apps for this kind of stuff for ultimate freedom.