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Dumb question!
#11
(03-26-2013, 03:57 PM)Marko pro Wrote:  (i am going in chemistry school for chemical technician)
Good luck with that.
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#12
(03-26-2013, 09:24 AM)YinYin Wrote:  
(03-26-2013, 08:52 AM)Blue Phoenix Wrote:  They somehow stick together but not really strongly. That's liquid water.
No.
Water sticks together very strongly, which is the reason why it has such a high density as a liquid and also the reason why it does not mix with oil.
This is also the reason why it forms droplets on a surface and why you can fill a glass of water a little above the rim without spilling.
If you want to fix yourself there BP why not tell us a little more about those funny spheres you posted?

Sure! What I was trying to refer to was the bonding between the individual water molecules. Yes, the density of cool liquid water is higher than that of ice, however, the bonding in its completeness is much lower. How else can you explain that ice can hold up a certain pressure, ie. walking over a frozen lake, whereas doing the same in summer will result in drowning?
I just don't know why a further explanation of a model view of a water-molecule could help deepening this thread...


(03-26-2013, 09:24 AM)YinYin Wrote:  If you walk over ice the weight of your body (pressure) will melt the top layer of it, forming a small liquid film that will make you slide (otherwise you would be able to walk on ice as if it were concrete).
That's actually not the full explanation. Ice is still slippery, even when it's ridiculously cold (< -20°C). According to your phase diagram, it should be impossible to go ice-skating in Scandinavia. Surface science predicts that the topmost monolayers are less-bonded to the solid but still not fully liquid-ish.
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~ Breaking LFE since 2008 ~

"Freeze, you're under vrest!" - Mark, probably.

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#13
(03-26-2013, 07:30 PM)Blue Phoenix Wrote:  Sure! What I was trying to refer to was the bonding between the individual water molecules. Yes, the density of cool liquid water is higher than that of ice, however, the bonding in its completeness is much lower.
I knew you were comparing to the solid ... I just couldn't believe you talking and explaining water (even pulling out the molecule structure without actually using it) but never mentioning why it's awesome. So I had to say No :p

(03-26-2013, 07:30 PM)Blue Phoenix Wrote:  
(03-26-2013, 09:24 AM)YinYin Wrote:  If you walk over ice the weight of your body (pressure) will melt the top layer of it, forming a small liquid film that will make you slide (otherwise you would be able to walk on ice as if it were concrete).
That's actually not the full explanation. Ice is still slippery, even when it's ridiculously cold (< -20°C). According to your phase diagram, it should be impossible to go ice-skating in Scandinavia. Surface science predicts that the topmost monolayers are less-bonded to the solid but still not fully liquid-ish.
I wasn't talking about ice skating really, because that also involves friction and thus heat.
Not to mention that blades can have a ridiculously small standing surface, which increases the pressure of your body weight immensely. (can't find a figure for the blades surface area right now - we should calculate this through some time though!)
So I'd say pressure and friction heat should always suffice to liquidise some layers of ice for gliding effects under earthly conditions (>-100 °C). I only think that the rate this happens at (or the size of the already liquid layer) gets smaller with temperature.

Also your uncited predictions are still linked to the special polar Hydrogen bonds and thus abnormal density at 4 °C.
And I prefer facts over predictions.

This is fun.
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#14
(03-26-2013, 04:36 PM)YinYin Wrote:  
(03-26-2013, 03:57 PM)Marko pro Wrote:  (i am going in chemistry school for chemical technician)
Good luck with that.
Idk is that my bad feel or you are gently mocking me cuz i ask such a dumb question (because i should know that if i am going in chemistry school)? i just can't believe you said that. :D
i might be wrong,
if you serious then thank you :D

i don't wanna interfere in the conversation, so exciting :P
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#15
I'd never mock anyone intending to learn chemistry. After all I study it.
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#16
I don't take chemistry and I knew this answer :D
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#17
(03-27-2013, 08:09 AM)qwertz143 Wrote:  I don't take chemistry and I knew this answer :D
That's as i already said basics of basic but still i got little confused in the snow part cuz, i might miss some of those lesson.

Thank you again! :)
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