Random attacks or moves

[Nyamaiku]

i think most people should know this:
having multiple vrest itrs,
example: one with a fall<=50 and one with fall>=60 can be used to create an attack that does different damage on standing and falling enemies

and quite a lot should know:
having multiple arest itrs of maybe different fall,effect or bdefend value, the result will be random(depend on the itr)
example: i have an itr that freezes and another that burns, so the attack may burn or freeze.
or...one of them has fall 20, another 60, and third one 70, the attack may normally hit, stun, or knock down the enemy


entering topic, i have some theory/ideas:
1. if i use the vrest method stated above, is it possible to make a catch attack that does different actions on standing and falling enemies?

2. if i use the arest method, can i make a catch attack that may have random(different) actions?

3. since the dvx in ik8 means which frame it will go to, can the arest method be used with ik8 to create an attack that is random?
example: lets say i have 2 itrs, one lead to frame 50, the other to frame 60

[Alblaka]

having multiple arest itrs of maybe different fall,effect or bdefend value, the result will be random(depend on the itr)

If you have multiple identical (in their hitbox) itr's, the first one will always trigger (assuming it hits a valid object), LF reads the frames iterative (in order of occurence).

@below:
If YinYin thanked that post, it must be correct. Didn't know about that special in relation to arest before.

[Nyamaiku]

If you have multiple identical (in their hitbox) itr's, the first one will always trigger (assuming it hits a valid object), LF reads the frames iterative (in order of occurence).

only vrest acts like that, if the first vrest itr can interact, it will. but if the first one cant, then the second one(if it can interact) will.

but arest doesnt seem to work like that. i accidentaly found that out while trying to make an arest ball sometime before
this can be proved by making a ball that has 2 arest itrs(in the same frame) with freezing and burning efffects and you will notice that it sometimes burn and sometimes freezes. the result is quite random

[Nyamaiku]

i just managed to get off my lazy arse and started doing something again. this time proving the ik8+arest theory.
and the result,

just thinking of all the random moves we can make using this technique makes me orgasmic ecstatic. im such a fudging genius!

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edit:
btw, i found that if you have more than 2 arest itrs in a frame, the result will become somewhat more consistent. so i guess its still best to stick to 2 itrs for a frame. this is what i observed:
if you have 3 itrs, 1 will react more, 1 occasionally, and 1 less.
so this may be useful to make an attack that have low chances for weak hits, and even lower chances for critical hits.
this can also be used with ik8 to make attacks that spawn more/less, or stronger/weaker attacks.
still, i cant truly get a pattern out of it. its just so random~

[BluePaint69]

You should post a study on it :P

[Nyamaiku]

@bluepaint
no way. this is such a simple thing to code that i will not post study examples of it.
dont tell me you dunno how to add just a few more itrs to a frame.
if you do, i will facepalm so hard that my friend's gonna need an ambulance. (facepalm, doesnt really require your own face)

@topic
after observing a lot more (as im really interested in randomness), i will state what i observed with 3 arest itrs.
this is a frame of the ball i made for testing:

DC-Code: <frame> 1 flying pic: 1 state: 3000 wait: 1 next: 1 dvx: 0 dvy: 0 dvz: 0 centerx: 40 centery: 41 hit_a: 0 hit_d: 0 hit_j: 0 itr: kind: 0 x: 22 y: 27 w: 55 h: 27 fall: 1 arest: 5 effect: 1 itr_end: itr: kind: 0 x: 22 y: 27 w: 55 h: 27 fall: 1 arest: 5 effect: 23 itr_end: itr: kind: 0 x: 22 y: 27 w: 55 h: 27 fall: 1 arest: 5 effect: 5 itr_end: bdy: kind: 0 x: 22 y: 27 w: 55 h: 27 bdy_end: <frame_end>

im quite sure that the 3rd itr (effect 5) reacts most.
but im only 70% sure that the 1st itr (effect 1) reacts a little more than the 2nd itr (effect 23).
note: this pattern also works the same for ik8.

it took me a hell lot of time just to observe 3 itrs. dont ask me about 4 or 5 itrs, i would just say meow and have a marshmallow.
(if im not wrong, the maximum number of itrs acceptable in a frame is 5 (for lf2 ver2.0))

[YinYin]

im quite sure that the 3rd itr (effect 5) reacts most.
but im only 70% sure that the 1st itr (effect 1) reacts a little more than the 2nd itr (effect 23).
note: this pattern also works the same for ik8.

it took me a hell lot of time just to observe 3 itrs. dont ask me about 4 or 5 itrs, i would just say meow and have a marshmallow.
(if im not wrong, the maximum number of itrs acceptable in a frame is 5 (for lf2 ver2.0))

You could give all of those itrs a different injury above 500 and use the autohotkey script I wrote for analyzing 1on1 AI rankings. Counting how many wins were achieved with a certain amount of injury in the resulting spreadsheet of recordings will give you good results. (for any amount of itrs - I think 5 is already pretty close to the limit of what lf2 can handle per frame anyway.)

[BluePaint69]

Well, i meant spawn in random areas, not random effects

[YinYin]

@bluepaint
no way. this is such a simple thing to code that i will not post study examples of it.
dont tell me you dunno how to add just a few more itrs to a frame.
if you do, i will facepalm so hard that my friend's gonna need an ambulance. (facepalm, doesnt really require your own face)

Actually giving this a few more thoughts there is a lot you can study about this and the resulting info will certainly be enough for some examples with in depth explanations.

First of all the exact percentages depending on the amount of used itrs as you've already guesstimated.
But do these values change when different object types/different itr kinds/different object orders are applied?

Also what happens if you mix up many itrs with different kinds (0/3/8/9/...)?
What happens if you throw in one with effect 4 on a high/low occurring spot?
What happens if you apply different arest values?

It'll make a huge difference knowing many of these details in advance.
You could find out which of these conditions don't matter and are free to choose and which are crucial and thus a possible way to tweak this in any way you like.
The important info of a study example on this wouldn't really be showing us how to add more itrs to a frame, but rather giving info on what's important and what this allows us to do.

[Nyamaiku]

Also what happens if you mix up many itrs with different kinds (0/3/8/9/...)?
What happens if you throw in one with effect 4 on a high/low occurring spot?
What happens if you apply different arest values?

i havent tested this before, but i remember i tested something similar.
lets use 2 itrs for explaining, since its less typing for me.
if 1 itr has effect 4, the other normal, it will become quite crazy.
since arest will somehow be switching between each other(im not sure you all understand this), it may not hit a t1 (aka character).
so if i add these 2 itr to a ball, and when the ball is read as the effect 4 itr, it will pass through the character without hurting him.
quite magical, huh? thats why arest interest me so much.

edit: now i remember. i experimented with effect 30 and effect 21
effect 30 is a freezing itr that wouldnt hit frozen enemies, and effect 21 is a burning itr that wouldnt hit burning enemies.
so if it is read as itr 30 when i try hitting a frozen enemy, it wouldnt hit.

@bluepaint
cant you just give it even a little thinking? and pls, im not giving you an example of random effects. its just to help explain the interaction ratio when there are 3 arest itrs.
since you kept asking:
ik8+arest which leads to different frames. different spawning place in each frame led to.
you better give me some donuts for that. or at least a bag of marshmallow.

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@YinYin
didnt notice you also state the arest values. i have tested this a long time ago.
different arest values will not have much difference...
unless its a state 3006 or 3005 attack
it will have different pauses between attacks.
good for making a random drilling ball attack or something similar.