Random.. Driving me nuts.

[A-Man]

Well, I was wondering yesterday when i was laying in bed, what the hell is random. Is anything really random actually exists? Or is it just a complicated sequence in number nd people just call it "random"? How are random numbers generated in a computer independent to time or any other thing ? Or am I wrong and the computer just calculates "random" numbers by doing some kind of calculations using the computer temperature (i know it sounds stupid)? So many questions here and I hope some people here could answer my doubts about this thing we call "random".

[YinYin]

this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_numb...al_methods

[Boop]

Random in computers is actually pseudo random and uses a seed. The seed is usually the current time in miliseconds that has past a certain time (since January 1, 1970 when using unix time).

Random is just something that cannot be predicted. It's possible to get random data. For example monitoring the decay of a radioactive source would be random because knowing when it would decay is random.

Recording noise from space also generates random data. I believe random.org uses that.

wikipeida explains the concept of random quite well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randomness

[Alblaka]

I would dare to say you can define 'random' as 'not predictable by human means'.
If you issue Java to create a RNG and drop you random numbers from 0-100 it's pretty much impossible for a mere bystander to predict the order of numbers.
That's 'random' to me.

[A-Man]

I would dare to say you can define 'random' as 'not predictable by human means'.
If you issue Java to create a RNG and drop you random numbers from 0-100 it's pretty much impossible for a mere bystander to predict the order of numbers.
That's 'random' to me.

However, if some super computer or a hyper brain could understand and get all the incidences and info that can lead to the generation of the "random" number, then that wouldn't be random for it anymore. It will be more like a result. Lets take the usage of space sounds as an example. You fully know whats happening in the space and the moving direction of all the planets, comets..etc. And you know if they collide and when and what properties the sound will have. You also know the position of each space object and how far it is from you. You also got the ability to calculate the algorithm which needs the above parameters in an instance. In this case, i don't think this is "random". We may see it as random, but this is just because we can't process all the info above and get the accurate sources (missing abilities). I rather call it "unpredictable".

@Silva: Thank you for that site (random.org) its really great!
Thank you all guys for your help!
edit: Post #555!

[Lauli]

Well, that implies that it's possible to create such a super-computer and collect enough facts to work with. I claim that this already is impossible. Enough to make randomness based on space sound practical enough.

Ramond edited this post 09-04-2012 07:55 AM because:

It also implies that that super-computer could predict the future, if every little detail of everything was known.

[Alblaka]

I would dare to say you can define 'random' as 'not predictable by human means'.

Super-Computers and Pseudo-Machines are not human. :P

[empirefantasy]

hmmm just some days ago i was reading about that. example when water is flowing from the tap, you say the splashes goes random. But if you would calculate every molecule you can find where every splash will go.In that way is impossible to calculate every molecule so we just take the experience to predict where they will fall approximately.
Tests and experiments have been showing that people brain affect/influence in "random" things.

[A-Man]

hmmm just some days ago i was reading about that. example when water is flowing from the tap, you say the splashes goes random. But if you would calculate every molecule you can find where every splash will go.In that way is impossible to calculate every molecule so we just take the experience to predict where they will fall approximately.
Tests and experiments have been showing that people brain affect/influence in "random" things.

Yes! this was exactly my point.

@Ramond & Lauli: Yeah, this means that a super natural being who knows everything about this world can predict the future. Cool! This means that a human being can partially predict an approximate future (like weather and other things).

@Albaka: Just because we can't calculate all these "parameters", we call it "random". But its actually not "random" and its just comes as a result of an external event we have no accurate info about. So "real" random doesn't really exist in that case. I think that the most "random" is the thing in random.org, since the space is vast and its sounds can effects the atmospheric noise. Or maybe the time taken for a molecule to decay as silva said.

[Lauli]

@Ramond & Lauli: Yeah, this means that a super natural being who knows everything about this world can predict the future. Cool!

Uh yea sure, that train of thought could lead into religion if you wish.
And just to be a little picky, that supernatural being must not only know everything, but also be able to calculate it fast enough to actually be practical.
I mean, what's the sense of calculating the future, if you're not calculating faster than time passes.
"Hey guys, I calculated what happened an hour ago based on the facts of two hours ago" - "Yo, you're a little late." - "Oh no, that rustled my jimmies!"