Moderation in this forum.

[Gespenst]

With warns should be like ''dont rate negative, rate them neutral''

[empirefantasy]

i think there must be a subject to every post

Every post here has an subject. You can't make a post without a subject.It is created automatically in quick reply "RE: name of thread", or you can edit it when you press "NEW REPLY".

Sometimes a simple "well done" or "cool" has much more value than you can imagine.

I totally agree with this.
I think that a "cool" can keep the user amusing, while no reply, may make him/her thinking that he is doing bad.(Usually when he/she is new here.)


I totally agree with YinYin who said that MODs should discuss with members who has problems. Simoeon is one of the moderators who usually do this. And i think this is helpful, while standard disposaling and warnings are demoralizing, annoying, and unhelpful.


I often take a look in forum statistics and posts per day has becoming less and less last months. from this i don't think this is a time to clear forum from members (with or without purpose, direct or indirect).


@EXG9 idea
They would prefer to skip the answers. If they can't skip them, then it would be annoying and probability they would leave.



Also everybody should know the fact that not everybody has a lot of time to learn rules, the meaning of rules and all the mechanism.

Sometimes some new guys here post their DC problems and when they are solved they say "thanks". I have seen this disposaled. Yes, it is against the rules to post something nonsense when there is a thank button but tell me how do they know that they should press thank button instead of saying "thanks"?

others struggle with the minimum character count[3]

0 characters in a post^[4] and there are some other like this.

[Simoneon]

Thank you all for your answers! Now I know that somebody still cares, haha

I think YinYin nailed it, and I am going to try that method, because in theory it sounds very nice. I don't really have anything more to say as in my head this is pretty much a solved discussion. I'm really glad that you evaluate that I posted it to everyone, because it wasn't an easy choice.

Simoeon is one of the moderators who usually do this.

Thanks man! I really need those comments on my "job", as I'm partly blind on how I look from another perspective. Or whatever you want to call it
One day I am going to create a selfish thread, which will ask opinions about me from other members.

[Silverthorn]

One day I am going to create a selfish thread, which will ask opinions about me from other members.

Not before I trash it

Jokes aside, this is an interesting discussion. Time to jump right into it.

well, maybe we should make a new rule like "dont be lazy when posting".

Now, how exactly does one want to set a limit on that? What can be considered "lazy" and what is just "short & sweet"? The problem is the same as with a set word-limit in a post. Having something like this causes more problems than being solved.

users should always think what use their post would have and if its worth to post.

This.
Really, this is probably the most important issue. Having tons of posts doesn't automatically imply that one is a good member... I am aware that my post-count isn't quite small; and yes, I have made tons of mistakes. The advantage I had was that I started here right out as a GM, which gave me a bit of jester's freedom. But yeah, reading old posts is a nightmare

maybe we should also loosen up the percentage for the rule breaks, like this: newer users get less percent than more experienced users.

If I remember correctly, we already have something like this, however, it's enforced manually. At least, judging from the warnings I see that are handed out (please note that I have neither time nor will to check each warning, so these are only "samples" I can refer to), newcomers usually get much less warnings compared to more experienced ones. Of course, there is a limit; if one consistently breaks the rules and doesn't react to advice given via mod-notice/post/etc, it ultimately ends in warnings. Now, I don't exactly know how each user with warning-privs handles this, but this is at least what I see.

Rather have an empty, then a spammed forum.

I don't know if you've experienced the last weeks of danethical, but that was spamming at its finest. In those terms, I do agree that a spammed forum makes your brain go boom. Although, I personally think, it's about a healthy middle between an overly censored posting vs. "say what you want, how you want, we don't care". By that, I mean: trash the blatantly obvious spam-messages, keep the ones that contain at least a bit of sanity. Now, this is terribly subjective again. The problem is that people cannot look into each other's minds, so they don't actually know if the person making a borderline-post intended to have something deeper connoted to it or if it's just a simple "meh".

Admins, why wont you making something like this:
When registering they should answer some questions from forum rules thread(when do you get warn, how many warn point for rule 3)

From any online-community I am registered at, LFE would be the first one that actually went after its users like that. I don't know, as a newcomer, I'd be pretty scared if suddenly a message like this came up: "To continue, please answer the following question: what is the fifteenth word used in the Forum Rules" (note that this is a really bad example, but I hope you get the point). Additionally, if there were some sort of free-response-questions, one would have to evaluate the answers. No computer can do that. And does any of the staffers have an urge to do exactly this? I highly doubt it.

Constant ban/post deletion might keep any newcomers out of here and eventually even old geezers will leave due to nothingshappenning. So I'd think twice if something like short sentence post is really worth the trouble of causing possible eventual abandonment of forum.

That's pretty much it, on one hand, the most active people in terms of projects are newcomers, whilst the olders generally tend to comment/criticize/bash these people's works. Much of the initiative has been lost, and, after demotivating somebody in their project, the activity just sinks again. So, in a way, it seems to go towards the boredom-phase.

i'm sure someone who has already left us said something like this:
mods should be role models, not just trash collectors

That is a criterion that's being taken into account when promoting somebody to mod-state. Even though, looking back at some decisions taken, this is not always working out well.
By any means, this doesn't imply that the current lot of moderators is infallible, flawless, however you want to call it. Have a bad day and lots of things can go wrong... (in this, I'm probably the best example again)
However, there is a reason why they were appointed. They usually spam less than average, bring in a friendly attitude, have awesome ideas, you name it. Each one has been picked (that is referring to the decisions where at least I was involved in) because there is something about them which makes them special in a positive way. But this is probably deviating quite a bit from the actual topic, so back to it: except for those "bad moments", they usually behave in a way that is desired. However, it's obvious that, after a while, the regular mod-duties become weary. This is the problem with it; after a while, people change. And this job seems to play a catalyst in that. Or any sort of recognition, really. MOTMs, Adv DCers, whatever. Today, they're the awesome guy next-door that everybody wants to be like, tomorrow, they're Mr. Butthead. In a way, it's inevitable, and I'm really appreciating the work that anybody has spent into making LFE what it's like today. I don't really mean anything regarding the forum-functionality but rather the community itself. It has grown as well. Everybody shapes it, some less, some more. It's just that latter are mostly staffers, due to their power. I remember the time when I, freshly GM'd (aka. "Evilmod"), trashed any post that contained the slightest traces of spam. After a short time, the atmosphere got strict and it seemed that people thought twice before posting.
Was it good? Doubtable, it's this censorship-stuff I mentioned earlier. Making the rules too strict kills the open, free discussion. No forum wants that. That's why a little moderating is good, too much or less is bad. And keeping this line is hard.

[YinYin]

reminds me of that southpark episode about curse words
if you do it wrong either you blow up or the world does
hehehe

so,
do newly appointed staff members get some kind of a briefing? (not just about warnings/banning and other technical things)
or have you so far just expected everyone to stay the way they were before for as long as possible?

[Silverthorn]

do newly appointed staff members get some kind of a briefing? (not just about warnings/banning and other technical things)

Here is a little excerpt from the Info-thread for moderators (most of the other stuff in irrelevant in this discussion):

Are there any special rules to follow?
Basically, you just need to ensure that the posts do not violate the Forum Rules (Announcement #1). Furthermore, you may set own rules in your forum, but in general, this is not necessary and shall only be done in case there is no other way left.

(this is from March, 2010, a few days after the new mods got their position. I accidentally deleted the first version of the thread when I updated it with a couple FAQs, so any additional infos that weren't contained in the first post are lost.)

It is not explicitly written that they have to "stay like they are", etc. To be honest, it'd sound quite silly if it said something along the lines of this, at least for the time it was written. I don't know if any of the follow-up-posts contained relevant stuff (since I restored the thread, it's been awkwardly quiet in there :p), but, either way, a specific behavioral remark sounds unlikely.

The only thing which might come in relevant is from a few weeks later which is more about the ethics of what to edit and what not. It's quite a big text, which I really don't want to copypaste here... (related to both the fact that there is stuff that doesn't make sense without background-info and because there is sensible stuff discussed)

[A-Man]

Well here is my idea:
1. You can add a system which doesn't allow posting for posts with less that 35 letter for example.

2. Make a new little forum ('Introduce yourself') which new members make a thread saying ' Hi I am Mr.A. I registered in this forum because blablablablabla.....etc'. Other members will reply back and refer them to the rules, cuz I don't think any new member will read that without being tell to. This way, new members will get to understand this place before posting stupid posts.

[zort]

Examples, for concreteness: this one, this one, most of the posts responding with facts in this thread are bullsh*t

Since you asked for our opinion, I'm personally in favor of a high high high signal:noise ratio. Don't forget those posts which do say something, but nothing that wasn't said in the posts immediately above it, like this one.

I did read all of the posts above me, and some I quite liked:

as a younger user, i know that it's "exciting" to get a reply to your thread (i remember that when i was younger), but you must learn to see what posts are useful and what aren't.

threads like [this] don't contain anything intellectually stimulating, so it's anti-satisfying to read.

you can post posts like "nice", but word it so that there's feeling into it.^[1]

Wow, it works! You end up with hyperbole, but a more interesting post.

intellectual posts don't have to contain more than one word^[2], but more often than not they must



Azriel~

Of course. I suppose this thread could do with some concrete non-examples as well.

so what's the solution?
if you simon (or any other mod in fact) think that a post on your report list (or directly in front of your eyes in the forum) is super shallow and not adding anything to the community except for saying "nice, i like this!" - but somehow just doesn't really break any rules
then why not answer this poor user, ask him why he thinks so - what does he like about it?

really any member in this forum could/should do this if he's got problems with 'spam' posts (which might just be a showcase of gratitude - why the hell punish that?)
especially the thread starter that is being praised
but mods actually do a job here so they really should be active in that way - most of all the global ones
(or am i misunderstanding the term global moderator?)

Nah, too much overhead, that would just increase the signal:noise ratio ("Why do you like it?" "Oh, I dunno, it's really nice"). But since you indirectly called me out, I will humor you.

so either get some members to actually communicate with those that seem to have trouble with it (that way they will learn) - or yes, decide for a more silent community and trash everything that bores you

You seem to have a pretty plastic model of internet personalities. I see nothing wrong with the second option anyway.

I haven't read the thread (only OP) so it might have been said already, but in any case - Accomodate forum so it won't end up deserted. It's obvious that only next generations can keep LF alive and their forumposting/english skills are obviously not on par with standarts around. Constant ban/post deletion might keep any newcomers out of here and eventually even old geezers will leave due to nothingshappenning. So I'd think twice if something like short sentence post is really worth the trouble of causing possible eventual abandonment of forum.

Sometimes a simple "well done" or "cool" has much more value than you can imagine.

Yeah, maybe. Maybe not. What a scary point. (By the way, no, you didn't repeat something someone else said.)


Oh, and here's an example of an only-intellectual forum: http://www.gamedev.net/forum/17-game-design Then again Simoneon thinks the discussion is done :(

[MH-Razen]

Well MH, I'm disappointed, because you did not convince me... "We are not the parents that should be teaching by punishing." - so you want an empty community?

lol

I prefer an empty community instead if a thread where i have to scroll and read trash.

But I hope this discussion show some guys that they should change their posting style, we'll see

[YinYin]

Nah, too much overhead, that would just increase the signal:noise ratio ("Why do you like it?" "Oh, I dunno, it's really nice"). But since you indirectly called me out, I will humor you.

You seem to have a pretty plastic model of internet personalities. I see nothing wrong with the second option anyway.

ain't the increased signal:noise ratio what we want? (more signal compared to noise?)
or did you just get that wrong? in any case the question from the mod obviously shouldn't be just as simple as the initiating post (the way you've put it there) to allow yet another unreasoned boring answer

and yes i'm pretty naive like that - because why shouldn't you first try to solve things by communication? this is a platform for communication - and if a kid that likes lf2 isn't quite good at communicating why not learn it here: by doing

also i don't see anything wrong with the second option either if everyone is too lazy to talk with each other - i often am myself after all