RaMafia 2

[A-Man]

I do understand it a bit. But even after all inquisitors are gone, we'll have 2 werewolves left and no ways of even remotely figuring out them. So... Yeah it fails in the long run benefitting only the wolfies.

Oh, we know one other one is a Knight! If only one remains, it's pretty much over for the werewolves, as we can just keep lynching and get the last one. Put in mind that as only one remains, the game can continue until the ratio is as slow as 1:1 (which is plenty of turns), and that the chances keep increasing gradually every turn.

@A-Man
that doesn't make the inquisitor useless, he can still gather information and reveal it at the end, and if there is a second town sided inquisitor he can do that aswell, and finally by crossing both lists you can figure out who's werwolf and who isn't... but revealing them early on the other hand, puts them in danger and will lead to mafia knights blocking their abilities

But you can't really make anything of what the inquisitor says. His information have no value, as they may be of that of a werewolves-aligned, and we can't ever figure someone's alignment for certain until the game is over. Your other argument is based on the chance we have 2 inquisitors on our side which is not only less likely, but can only be figured out when they're killed and their roles are revealed (which it seems you're not willing to take a risk of doing). It's very likely Bamboori will be attacked the coming night, and it'd be too wishy for you to say you're counting on 2 scouts too.

@mfc:
Well, I have few questions about some of your answers to previous questions like what you exactly mean by "enough evidence" and stuff, but what's important begins at #3.

3-When will you ever confirm X is town or werewolf?

---When multiple information sources correlate and lies become exposed.

I'd always question the reliability of your sources and the correctness of your conclusions with all the margin of error there is with that method. The only time I will be ever able to confirm X is what is when the game ends.

4-Suppose werewolves killed someone at night, and it turned out that person is an inquisitor, what does this suggest about that inquisitor's alignment?

---We cannot know, but his words and list are worthy of inspection for finding the truth.

You can not know for certain, but it's more likely that the werewolves attacked an inquisitor who's not in their alignment, right?

5-What would you do if a scout comes afterwards and reports he's found another inquisitor?

---Well, that scout didn't do a good thing then, he should have kept it for himself. He threatened the life of a potential townie inquisitor.

No, he's totally a smart one. This inquisitor is likely the remaining werewolf-aligned inquisitor! (or in case there are more than 2 town-aligned ones, they have a higher chance to be one)

6-Given all this, should werewolves really care, or even want, to kill an inquisitor?

---Yes, because they are the biggest threat for WW. because Alignment is not revealed upon death.

No, a dead townie-aligned inquisitor is the biggest threat to their own werewolf-aligned one. Be critical!

Woah! Hold your horses A-man. Inquisitor (Town) is the most important role in my opinion. That's the only way you can identify a Werewolf. What you are suggesting is going to get all the Inquisitors getting massacred. If all of them die, hour do you propose that we know that the alignment of a person is Werewolf or not with concrete proof?

You can just say that's your opinion, but the inquisitor is in fact not. It's not the only way to figure out a werewolf, because there ISN't a way to do this. If all of them die, a werewolf is dead, and it's the least you can lose and most you can gain!

Hmm now that I think about it, an inquisitor's word doesn't matter. I can claim to be one and say Simon is werewolf. But it doesn't prove anything. Even if after I die, my word is meaningless since you cannot determine whether I was a werewolf aligned inquisitor or townie aligned. Inquisitor would be beneficial if his role alignment was revealed after death. But I still don't buy the idea of killing them all first.
It doesn't achieve anything, and will at the end only allow 1 werewolf kill and several townie kill.

Yup, you got it. Only thing in your post is that you can't claim to be an inquisitor if you're not one (werewolf or town aligned) because your role will be revealed once you're dead.

and if you're on the bottom half of the list:
5. empirefantasy
7. A-Man
9. Simoneon
10. Rhino.Freak
11. Bamboori
please protect me on all Nights with even numbers, like Night 2, 4, 6 etc

They should protect Bamboori imo.

I have to say that A-Mans logic seems flawed to me.
And sorry for revealing roles so soon, I was not thinking about private talk.
But. How should I know who to trust/pm without any knowledge?

How is my logic flawed?
Don't trust anyone in particular. If you're to share information, do it here in public. If you've followed with my posts, then you should know that revealing another inquisitor would do us good. If you've checked a Knight, then only inform us only when you know 2 or more are knights. Anything else you can choose to share or not just that we don't know if you've successfully checked the first knight.

[mfc]

There are 5 roles.
Knt Sct Brd Oct Inq

You assume there is totally one Inq on WW side. And that is not certain. You assume there is totally one Knt on WW side, that is not certain. You are trying to kill all members of certain Roles. Not a good idea.

That is the key flaw in your bloodthirsty strategy.

"But you can't really make anything of what the inquisitor says. His information have no value, as they may be of that of a werewolves-aligned, and we can't ever figure someone's alignment for certain until the game is over. "

No. Let's say there are 2 Inq one on WW side one on Town. What we will know is, one says ultimate truth, other has lies within his words. And with feedback from people in their list, we can figure out who is lying, who is not.

"You can not know for certain, but it's more likely that the werewolves attacked an inquisitor who's not in their alignment, right?"
More likely, 60% vs 40% but still, not certain. It is just another piece of puzzle.

---

@MangaD; what's the matter, you so silent, did the cat get your tongue?

[A-Man]

There are 5 roles.
Knt Sct Brd Oct Inq

No, 7.

You assume there is totally one Inq on WW side. And that is not certain. You assume there is totally one Knt on WW side, that is not certain. You are trying to kill all certain Role members. Not a good idea.

I am not trying to kill a all certain Role member, but those which the werewolves and townies have in common.

That is the key flaw in your bloodthirsty strategy.

"But you can't really make anything of what the inquisitor says. His information have no value, as they may be of that of a werewolves-aligned, and we can't ever figure someone's alignment for certain until the game is over. "

No. Let's say there are 2 Inq one on WW side one on Town. What we will know is, one says ultimate truth, other has lies within his words. And with feedback from people in their list, we can figure out who is lying, who is not.

But HOW in blazes do you know who's saying the ultimate truth and who's lying? Feedback from people I assume you mean their reactions? That's only a bit more reliable than using a PRNG.

"You can not know for certain, but it's more likely that the werewolves attacked an inquisitor who's not in their alignment, right?"
More likely, 60% vs 40% but still, not certain. It is just another piece of puzzle.

My intuition says it's definitely more one-sided than 60 to 40, but I can't argue with you on the numbers since I don't have the ability to come up with numbered statistics in such cases related to the complex human behavior. But it's a relief you agree it's more likely.

Edit:
And to everyone who claims the inquisitors' statements can be Sodoku-ized, one major question is:
How long will it take to get enough info to "decisively" pinpoint a werewolf? And are you putting the ability of the werewolf-aligned one in mind? The fact that he can change alignments and such.

p.s:
I was just thinking that if I were a werewolf inquisitor, I could let the others think I am going to check someone in particular in hope a town-aligned inquisitor will be alarmed and check him too. Then what I'll do is change this guy's alignment to werewolf and claim that I've checked him and he turned out to be a werewolf. Chances are that the other inquisitor will jump in and confirm.
I am not saying anything about TheNave in particular, but I remembered this post he made:

anyways, I'll probably check bamboori tonight because revealing an inquisitor first round does not seem to be helping town side at all...

[Simoneon]

chill, A-man, no one is going to tell you who the inquisitors are

[mfc]

There are 5 roles. 2 of them has alternate settings IF they are given to WW. Just because they have alternate settings, they don't necessarily have to exist on WW side. @Ramond can you confirm?

But HOW in blazes do you know who's saying the ultimate truth and who's lying? Feedback from people I assume you mean their reactions? That's only a bit more reliable than using a PRNG.

Not just reactions. Also from their history until game has reached to some level. After like 2 day phases, we will have enough info to start pining WW's down I predict. If you capture one lie, that is enough to make him go down. Also Inq info means they will blame some people. And you can go suspect the ones they blamed.

It is a long way until we reach that point but that is the basic path.

Ramond edited this post 03-20-2016 07:33 PM because:

Confirmed. The WW counterpart roles were only described in case those werewolf-aligned roles exist, to make them have some use for werewolf side too.

[Neeragon]

I don't get why bambori spoke up his role so soon, i mean scout is really an important role and he would have normally not revealed it this soon in the game, then there's A-man trying to protect bambori by asking for the knight's help, also the killing all the inquisitor strategy which is more helpful for the wolfs in the long run, so yea my vote is for A-man

[T.O.R.N.A.D.O]

@A-Man, So you are willing to kill all the members who have both town and Werewolf alignment just to get the werewolves killed? Let's assume that it is done. How do you know for certain that there is no Werewolf who is either an inquisitor or a knight. And if you are indeed certain that there exists such a Werewolf then how do you propose that we will find him?

[A-Man]

There are 5 roles. 2 of them has alternate settings IF they are given to WW. Just because they have alternate settings, they don't necessarily have to exist on WW side. @Ramond can you confirm?

5 roles if you count by their title, which is worthless. I can call them all "RaMafia Roles" and say there are 1. There are 7 abilities and are what count. You guys can be very wishy washy at times; first you suggest there is more than one mafia aligned inquisitors (can I get your confirmation @Ramond that this can happen?), and then you say there may be none. The net value of the chance is 0, and so it's fair to claim there is 1 inquisitor and 1 knight who're mafia-aligned. Not to forget to mention that there are relatively less roles than players, which makes it more likely for Ramond to use them all after he's gone with the effort of inventing them.

But HOW in blazes do you know who's saying the ultimate truth and who's lying? Feedback from people I assume you mean their reactions? That's only a bit more reliable than using a PRNG.

Not just reactions. Also from their history until game has reached to some level. After like 2 day phases, we will have enough info to start pining WW's down I predict. If you capture one lie, that is enough to make him go down. Also Inq info means they will blame some people. And you can go suspect the ones they blamed.

It is a long way until we reach that point but that is the basic path.

I wonder 2 days aka 4 statements of 'information' from 2 inquisitors, that is if any other inquisitor shows in the first place, and that is if the 4 statements can be compared against each other. I seriously doubt this plan is anything realistic.

[Ramond]

What else can I confirm. I can tell that I distributed the Werewolf alignment independently from the roles per random.org. Anything can happen.

(Except if there was a Werewolf constellation that was simply too imbalanced, I'd reroll.)

[A-Man]

@A-Man, So you are willing to kill all the members who have both town and Werewolf alignment just to get the werewolves killed? Let's assume that it is done. How do you know for certain that there is no Werewolf who is either an inquisitor or a knight. And if you are indeed certain that there exists such a Werewolf then how do you propose that we will find him?

Yes! I am not saying there is no werewolf who's either an inquisitor or a knight, just the opposite of that. And it's not for a fact, just certainty.

My idea is first to kill all the inquisitors and knights (perhaps only the one other than TheNave would be enough, since he seems to be hiding). After that, we can try to get a werewolf knight, and hopefully if the 2 exist (maybe even if all of them are either one or the other, we just win), we can continue randomly lynching people based on anecdotal statistics. But put in mind that the more we werewolves we kill, the longer will the game progresses; hence chances of sniping the last werewolf or 2 are higher.

Edit:
hoho, great! I am sure a team of 3 bards would be considered quite unfair.