[Mod] [DEAD] LF2 "Demake"

[STM1993]

I'm curious now - would it be possible DCwise to have all movements make small jumps to always be in line with the 2x2-pixel "rule"?

Nope, only the sprite and hitboxes follow the 2x2-pixel rule. I think it is too limiting to have xyz movement to always move in 2 pixels, not to mention it can look quite awkward for a character to suddenly jump 2 pixels when you could make the animation appear smoother with a 1 pixel movement.

(and yes, I did adjust the stats of all characters to match their smaller sprite size. I have to also make all itrs have zwidth 8 instead of the default 12 otherwise it'd look really awkward when punching each other on the z-axis)

Small update since I already posted:

Not quite LouisEX (doesn't have angry eyes), more of unarmored Louis because I'd be using this as a base for both LouisEX & Louis.
Yes I'll make Sorcerer's head bigger.

EDIT:
v @Ariel :

I'll add in their unique weapons later. I am considering implementing the old LF1 mechanic where Deep/Henry's sword/bow are actual weapons that you need to pick up, so there's that as well.

My biggest issue with the actual weapon concept is that I won't be able to give the characters their super punch since itr kind 6 is deactivated when holding a weapon.

[Ariel]

Will you add his spear? (It will be unfortunate if you won't)

[YinYin]

I'm curious now - would it be possible DCwise to have all movements make small jumps to always be in line with the 2x2-pixel "rule"?

No,
LF2 already uses sub pixel movement (else the decimal places for movement speeds wouldn't make a difference).
You would have to hack the rendering of objects to snap to every second pixel instead of single pixels.

You could perhaps try to figure out which ground speeds would create a multitude of 2px/frame and stop all movement with 550 to prevent friction. I don't think you can manage this for jump arcs though. None of this really seems worth the hassle for the jerky movements you would get.

[STM1993]

Here's an update since I got sidetracked the past 2 weeks on the custom stage and Louisrang:
* Deep basic sprites done. As mentioned, I'll add the sword later. I think the sword shall remain as part of the character instead of a separate weapon.
* Sorcerer head enlarged.
* Male/Female original template also quickly done.
* Louis/LEX basic foundation done, for Louis its a matter of adding the armor and cape.

I also have Mark & Woody's colouring done, just adding the hair and the details such as the jacket.

Sorcerer (head enlarged) (Click to View)

Deep (Click to View)

T/Femplate (Click to View)

Louis Foundation (Click to View)

I'd also like to share what I understand makes the default characters likable to check if I'm on the right track.

1. Deep
   His melee attacks come out fast, are guaranteed to send you falling in one blow and have vrest(hit multiple enemies). DvA is his most important move for doing everything. His weakness is having the poorest mobility and range of all the heroes, though he is one of the best weapon throwers.
   
2. John
   Good speed and defensive abilities makes him well-rounded overall. His D>J shield is his most important move for area denial, combo setup and anti-projectile, but he also uses D^A to mix things up(harass) especially on the z-axis. However, his specials have a long casting time and he doesn't seem particularly good at breaking defense since his shield doesn't have any bdefend and disc is quite predictable.
   
3. Henry
   High range, diagonal jump attacks, dashback attack and powerful on x-axis with a very long but mobile >>D. He relies heavily on keeping his distance, sending his enemies into DOP using fast-firing regular arrows and vrest bow strikes and D>A to push/finish. However, he lacks answers to close range aside from his cheap and annoying flute and mana intensive due to arrows costing mana to fire. For human players, it is also quite easy to end up doing a D>A/J when the intent is to simply fire a regular arrow.
   
4. Rudolf
   Fastest runner with gimmicky moves. He relies heavily on his vrest >>JA and D>A(histun lock) for damage, while using DJA to compensate for his lack of combos and to escape from situations such as being frozen (and turning backwards so he can counter with D>J on getting knocked on his back). However, he is considered a ranger without a proper melee attack which is awkward since he can always only throw 3 shurikens in a row, needs to grab an opponent first to access transformation or otherwise have very limited fighting ability. It should also be noted that his D^/vJ moves are made specifically for AI use since ironically, he can't see himself while invisible unless holding a weapon (limiting invisibility's use to temporary invulnerability for human players) and the name/Com logo giving away the main Rudolf.
   
5. Louis
   Has armor that lets him absorb an otherwise fatal hit and thus letting him counter, great jumping and excellent in-range. D>J is his overall most useful move. However, his attacks are very slow to begin with, his >>A/>>JA requires mana, his armor stops working just as he starts attacking and so absolutely requires taking the first hit before pressing attack to strike. Combined with relatively low damage and occasionally buggy grabs, he is the most difficult character to use properly be it in 1v1 or stage mode (even then he is an annoying foe in stage mode).
   
6. Firen
   Burned opponents cannot flip and can be hit by attacks with less than fall 60, as well as torch a group of enemies. His most important move is his triple D>A as his main source of damage while D>J is a good way to advance past projectiles. However, he has a very bad super, mana costly and relies heavily on a range sweet spot outside of his punching range to deal good damage(notably x6 fireballs), otherwise he tends to torch himself and his allies or straight up miss. His D^J explosion also has an unnecessary hp cost and is easily countered or even blocked.
   
7. Freeze
   His ice special moves are good for dealing with multiple opponents with a mix of vrest, separating enemies and hitting along z-axis. His most important move is D>A and he can reflect energy balls back as ice projectiles. However, his punches lack in-range, moves are very mana costly and can easily backfire. It should also be noted that D>J sometimes doesn't work as expected since the ice columns could get destroyed by an itr just as they spawn.
   
8. Dennis
   Well-rounded with low mana cost, an excellent duelist. Dennis can harass his enemies with chasing balls and force an opening for him to land a >>JA or setup a combo primarily revolving around D>J, grab and then finishing with DvA. However, his damage is on the low side, requiring multiple hits and he tends to have a problem with landing a last or strong hit, thus allowing himself to be punished; his super is slow, the last kick of DvA has a tendency to miss, D>J can be blocked and then attacked from behind.
   
9. Woody
   Fastest punch, great mobility and huge combo potential for low mana cost. He revolves entirely around the crouch frames; his super/D^A launches upwards, goes into crouch1, chain into >>JA, which he can also followup with D>J from crouch2, which goes back to jumping state letting him teleport or land in crouch1 for another dash or roll to escape from a bad situation. However, his special moves generally start off slow, his DvA is not very useful and >>A is better used against an airborne opponent without a fast jump attack since it is too slow to work properly. Personally I think Woody is also quite hard to use.
   
10. Davis
    Fastest punch, very aggressive. DvA is actually his most useful move, but he is defined by his D^A uppercut, which is the ultimate counter attack/finisher due to its near-instant attack and invulnerability frames. While having huge damage potential and simple to use, Davis is also predictable and he has a bad super and slow jump/dash attacks.
    

[YinYin]

1. Deep
   His melee attacks come out fast slow, [...]
   
2. John
   [...] Healing allows him to hold out longer than any other character, often doubling or even tripling the required damage to defeat him.
   
3. Henry
   [...] He relies heavily on keeping his distance, sending his enemies into DOP using fast slow-firing regular arrows [...]
   
4. Rudolf
   [...] I know good Rudolf players know exactly where they are, after all they know their inputs and can see their target. Also his shurikens fire fast enough to be viable at close range (even if not at on-top range).
   
5. Firen
   [...] However, he has a very bad interesting* super [...] His inferno can be used in a similar fashion as Johns shield for area denial, while it doesn't last as long or rebound projectiles it can cover a larger area. *the super can be extremely useful when you are late to the party as it is the fastest to put out a hurt box; in a 1v1 an opponent also won't really have any time to get away even if he can keep defending it, which will still do chip damage (and then it's a matter of who puts out the right/wrong timed special first or drops the ball of attacking/defending).
   
6. Dennis
   [...] the last kick of DvA has a tendency to miss, [...] this is a good thing as it allows you to chain longer combos
   
7. Woody
   Fastest punch*, [...] >>A is better used against an airborne opponent** without a fast jump attack since it is too slow to work properly. [...] *His punches also reach farther behind him than Davis'. **The good part about the run attack is the second hit with a very high bdefend - it is best used against defending/armored opponents.
   
8. Davis
   [...] I think his run attack is also rather important, as it can either deal a very strong double hit or be cancelled after the first hit. Not to mention it can follow the DvA.
   

[STM1993]

Preview of weapons. Update to Davis sprite. Obtained the higher quality version of Jason sprite from Pf since the one I previously had is a badly compressed jpeg, although I'm keeping the old one because it created some interesting colours.

There are 3 ice swords - shape from LF1 plus the handle. First is a recolour based on LF2, second is a slight colour modification, 3rd is unchanged. I'd like to know which one looks best.

Below John are 3 wands. 1st one is a failed attempt. 2nd is most likely given to John. 3rd one I'd likely make into a new weapon that has no itr but fires a ball when swung (taking advantage of the fact I'm making a full mod for this to work).

Rudolf's sword blades are currently the only sprites that break the 2x2 pixel unit rule at the edge. This is because making them 2 units is too fat as you can see below Henry's arrow, while leaving it as 1 unit will make it look like a stick like in Prince of Persia 1.

The staff below LouisEX's trident is a likely candidate for Sorcerer's weapon.

I'm aware the crate is a little large, but I think its fine as it is.

Woody base (Click to View)

Woody base sprites.


Up next: Mark? Or maybe the female Justin who I'd like to call "Judy"?

Current updated character notes for those interested:

Character Notes (Click to View)

//Characters
Deep
Pro: Vrest melee fall/bdefend in 1 blow, fast jump attack/DvA. Excellent weapon thrower.
Key: DvA combo.
Con: Slow non-jump/DvA attacks not helped by limited dvx, long attack recovery, poorest mobility & range.
* DvA is good for counter because bdy is shifted far behind to small area, wait 1 to itr, and wide hitbox.
* D>J is horrible for PvP damage, its mostly for escape and closing in.

John
Pro: Good speed & defense, can heal taking x2-3 more damage to kill, well-rounded overall.
Key: D>J area deny + combo + anti-ball, D^A harass z-axis.
Con: Slow special cast, lack bdefend & predictable disc makes him bad at breaking defense.

Henry
Pro: Long & powerful x-axis, diagonal & dashback arrows, drawn-out mobile >>D.
Key: Kite, send enemy to DOP with vrest bow smack or slowly spamming arrows, D>A to push/finish.
Con: No close range aside from cheap D^J flute, basic arrows cost mana. Human players can easily make mistake with D>A/J when intent is to fire regular arrow or jump.
* >>A pic 29 has very weird (effectively no) itr whereas super variant has proper itr.

Rudolf
Pro: Fast runner, gimmicky escape moves, vrest >>JA & deadly histun D>A. Weapon hide.
Key: >>JA/D>A damage, D>J from rowback/DJA transform to escape.
Con: No in-range, awkward 3-shuriken in a row, need grab to access DJA otherwise very limited fighting ability.
* Sword sprites don't match actual itr.
* Can't see self while invisible unless holding a weapon and the name/Com logo giving away the main Rudolf. Invis is not a problem for expert Rudolf players.

Louis
Pro: Armor absorb 1 hit, allowing for counter. Great jump & excellent in-range.
Key: D>J overall most useful. D^J great for PvP.
Con: Very slow attacks & armor fails on attack; taking hit with armor before pressing attack. Low damage & buggy grabs.
Good in-range, 1-hit armor, vrest attacks, high jump escape. However, armor fails outside of specific frames and to fire/ice, awkward mobility(slow but high jump), slow attacks, bad crowd control.
* D>J has missing itrs in a few kicks, no dedicated itr e4 shield, bdy is slightly forward intially before becoming head exposure
* Uses itr, not enemy body, to hit during D^J. Catching reach is within eye range, not hand range.
* Most difficult to use be it 1v1 or stage mode, but still an annoying foe in stage mode.

Firen
Pro: Burn; cannot flip, can be hit by attacks with fall <60.
Key: D>AAA damage, D>J/DvJ anti-ball/area denial.
Con: Mana costly, reliant on sweet range spot else torch self/allies, no x6 fireball or miss. D^J unnecessary hp cost & easily countered/blocked.
* Super 1st hit is fastest but weak fall 1, 2nd hit is slow can be blocked or avoided leading to chain block/push.
* 6 D>As w/o self-burn if position front hand to touch enemy.
* D>A starts off with strong bdy, but bdy moves forward as fireball is opointed (and subsequent frames), leading to easy self-burn.
* Punches extremely inconsistent; uppercuts hit higher but not so far back.
* D^J has bdy moved further back without narrowing, DvJ is full bdy size instead of moved back.

Freeze
Pro: Ice good vs multi; vrest, separate enemies(ik14 & freeze), z-axis.
Key: D>A fast freeze. Itrs reflect energy balls as ice balls.
Con: Mana costly, lack in-range, moves can easily backfire. D>J sometimes bdy destroyed by itr before it can hit enemy.
* Punches have poor and inconsistent in-range.
* DvJ bdy is behind, so Freeze can summon okay but then immediately knocked down after.

Dennis
Pro: Low mana cost, well-rounded overall with harassment, counter/finish, spinkick making him good at dueling.
Key: D>J main attack w/Grab, D^A harass/setup, DvA finisher.
Con: Low damage requiring multihit, slow super, D>J can be blocked and attacked from behind.
* DvA tendency to miss last kick; move too much forward and itr too forward, and fall 1 only for previous kicks giving opportunity to counter. Itr e4 shield during non-hitting frames.
* DvA last hit miss is only a problem if you don't use 2 regular kicks to ensure DOP first; this will lock enemy in DOP and let you chain in more kicks.
* D>J has itr e4 shield infront, but head can be hit and back is often unguarded.

Woody
Pro: Fastest punch, low mana cost, huge combo potential & mobility.
Key: Crouch frames -> Dash/Roll/D>J.
Con: Slow specials, DvA not very useful.
* A has more back-range than Davis.
* >>A is too slow to work properly unless vs airborne enemy with slow jump attack(speed) or 2nd hit vs defending/armored opponents due to high bdefend.
* D>J has invincibility when just launch (movement), no itr or bdy, preventing super launch like Davis' uppercut.
* DvA is consistent but has no in-range or itr e4 shield at all, redundant itr e4 in same area as kicking area. Still a bad move though. Consider similarity to Louis or Dennid D>J?

Davis
Pro: Fastest punch, very aggressive & high damage. >>A is a strong 2-hit vrest attack that can be cancelled/shortened (can chain from DvA).
Key: DvA most useful, D^A defining counter/finisher.
Con: Predictable. Bad super. Very slow non-punch basic attacks.
Brutal D^A counter and very aggressive. However, highly predictable and bad super, slow basic attacks outside of punching. Reliant on DvA.
* DvA has an itr e4 shield infront of him, last hit covers whole body.
* Can use all special moves out of running.

Bat
Pro: Fastest punch, good x-axis, homing hitstun D^J bats, good grab DvA.
Key: D^J harassment/hitstun.
Con: Slow, predictable specials with no z-axis. Mana costly. Lacks any reasonable combos.

LouisEX
Pro: BEST physical stats; very fast attack & highest mobility, longest melee reach. >> can hurt/deflect projectiles. Rapidfire shockwave D>A.
Key: Regular attacks. >> stab/deflect.
Con: Poor DvA, lacks any reasonable combos. Initial transform from Louis is opportunity to potentially kill.
* LEX is full of in-range except during >> stab. Has itr e4 shield during DvA except preparing last swing.

Firzen
Pro: Insane elemental damage potential, very high stats. Vrest >>JA. Fast MP regen. Reflect block.
Key: D^A harass, D>J kill.
Con: D^J slow to charge and recover.
Insane elemental damage, insanely high stats. However, severely lacking in combos and very predictable.
* Firzen >>A/Super has very good bdy.

Julian
Pro: Superb armor, high stats. Many vrest attacks, dashback attack, fast MP regen. Unblockable attacks. Powerful chasing attack.
Key: D>A homing damage/harass. D>J vs groups/strong projectiles.
Con: Large size, slow super, lacks combos. Rather reliant on armor.
* Fast punch, slow Super. D^A itr hits on hand front, but no itr when going up, itr again when facing back
* Hard to hit from back in D>A,D>J,D^J.

Template
Pro:
Key:
Con:
Weak basic char. Super uses uppercut, which can chain into >>A. JA infinite combo.

Bandit
Pro:
Key:
Con:
Weak basic char. Super uses front kick, mostly same as >>A. JA infinite combo.

Hunter
Pro:
Key:
Con:
Weak range char. Nothing special except having stun/juggle arrows in a group.

Mark
Pro: Strong melee & long reach hitbox, difficult to predict attack used, knockdown. Excellent throw. D>A infinite no MP cost.
Key: Mixup of D>A/D>J.
Con: Low jump with vulnerable legs. Long recovery from uppercut. Terrible mana cost for D>J.
* Wide itr for D>A, strong hitboxes in D>J. Inconsistent D>A wait vs super/>>A.
* Itr during grab can hit others outside for full damage but fall 20.

Jack
Pro: Strong D^A counter/finisher usable in nearly any situation, well-rounded stats.
Key: D^A counter/finisher.
Con: Slow D>A startup, punches lack in-range, super/>>A very slow.
* Punches lack in-range
* D^A has strong bdy

Sorcerer
Pro: In-range, elemental attacks, good speed, can heal taking x2-3 more damage to kill.
Key: D>J to freeze/convert energy balls. D>A to snipe.
Con: Low damage, slow specials, bad at breaking defense.

Monk
Pro: Can absorb attacks during D>A and start of super/>>A kick. Can rapidfire D>A after initial chargeup.
Key: D>A shockwave to clear projectiles.
Con: Poor stats; very slow in general.
Rapid 3005 D>A after defensive startup, JA infinite combo. However, poor stats despite size and awkward throwing height.
* Despite height, bdy usually a bit lower than his head, ends around eyes.

Jan
Pro: Great speed overall, reflect defend. Excellent team healer.
Key: D^J team heal. Regular attacks.
Con: Terrible weapon thrower. Inaccurate D^A. Very slow special recovery.
* Inconsistent in-range, but has it. Lack of D>A feels weird.

Knight
Pro: Strong armor, reflect defend, high throwing strength, weapon hide. Dashback slash.
Key: Jump attacks.
Con: Terrible basic attack that tends to miss(too much forward, no in-range 3rd hit), slow run speed, large hitbox. Armor completely fails againts fire/ice.
Great armor, reflect defend, fast & deadly jump attacks, high strength, weapon hide, fast walk. However, pathetic non-aerial attack speed and tendency to miss due to no in-range, slow run speed, no specials.
* Shield protects front but not head. Grabs deal a lot of damage.
* Drinking legs are not vulnerable. Walks surprisingly faster than average.
* 3-hit combo: 1st hit ok in-range, 2nd hit has in-range, 3rd hit no in-range. Doesn't help constant move forward.

Justin
Pro: Fast D>A with strong knockback. DvA has juggle potential. Can use special moves out of running.
Key: D>A knockback
Con: DvA is very slow, lacks protection and no z-movement.
Very fast D>A with strong knockback usable while running, decent non-run basic attacks. However, DvA is pathetically slow, weak and lacks protection despite juggling potential.
* Inconsistent in-range, but has it.
* Has absolutely no projectile protection, and can only guard back during 1st DvA punch. Non-matching itr compared to sprite.

[YinYin]

There are 3 ice swords - shape from LF1 plus the handle. First is a recolour based on LF2, second is a slight colour modification, 3rd is unchanged. I'd like to know which one looks best.
[...] leaving it as 1 unit will make it look like a stick like in Prince of Persia 1.

I like the first version - and I think stick like pixel swords would be fine.

[STM1993]

@YinYin - Noted, Pf also said 1st ice sword looks better, so I'll keep that version and toss the others.

Update:

Judy Base (Click to View)

Mark Base (Click to View)

Took me about 4 days for Judy. Mark finished in just one evening since I have some easy templates via Deep(sleeveless) and Bandit(sunglasses).

The next character would be either Dennis or Davis.

I've also changed John!

Based on this:

By v0cat0v (Click to View)

DeviantArt Link

He looks so much more badass already!


@The Hari made a couple of guest character demake single sprites! With his permission to show what he sent me via PM, these are Little Tao Si & Leo:

Again, I accept any help and new sprites. I do plan to add in several non-original LF2 characters (ie: Guest characters) such as Jason and possibly the two above, but please note that guest characters are not a high priority at the moment.


Announcement:
I'm getting my IRL stuff together, so progress will be slowed as I look for a job, finish a course paper etc. However, I will still be working on this since I really want to get this mod out, hoping to commit at least 30 minutes everyday for this no matter how tired/busy I am.

[prince_freeza]

The next character would be either Dennis or Davis.

i'd like to see Dennis first because.. wait we talked about this before.

I've also changed John!

Too dark (the purple), or maybe that's just me

but please note that guest characters are not a high priority at the moment.

i think it would be best to do guest characters last, because by then you will have all the original characters finished which means you have lots of parts you can re-use.

I'm getting my IRL stuff together, so progress will be slowed as I look for a job, finish a course paper etc. However, I will still be working on this since I really want to get this mod out, hoping to commit at least 30 minutes everyday for this no matter how tired/busy I am.

Understandable. just drop by with some updates every now and then if its not too much to ask.
and good luck.

[BigThink]

Cool! Do you have like a demo or how can we try your work?