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Version: LF2 Rebalance [LF2-RB] - Progress Thread
#1
It has been a long time. I'd like to create a proper forum thread for my project; not just a Discord channel.

This mod is far from complete, due to many delays and project restarts owing to abysmal management on my part.
I am releasing a playable beta today on 4th January 2021, even if it is mostly just original LF2, as a sign of my new approach to managing this project.


What is LF2 Rebalance [LF2-RB]?
The original LF2 is actually not very well-balanced in some aspects, whether for PvP or PvE.
In addition, the Stage Mode is repetitive/boring. It fails to bring out the best of its combo gameplay, instead favouring big Army vs Army battles.
These frustrations, along with the general lack of balanced LF2 mods, led to the development of LF2 Rebalance.

The goal of the mod is not only to address these frustrations, but to also keep the original feel of LF2.
That last point is very important.

No matter how overpowered Deep's >>JA is, how ridiculous Woody's combos are, how unfair infinites like Rudolf's are...
They are all integral to the experience of using these characters in LF2, both in the context of PvP and PvE.
New special moves & buffs to existing weak moves must not overshadow the rest of the char's kit either.
The mod should reward players for legacy skills from original LF2, while keeping things fresh.

Another important limitation is that I will avoid using EXE-dependent DC techniques.
That means practically everything about the mod also works on Original LF2 - basically a DC-only mod.
* Using a modded LF2 exe by itself, new MP Regen rate, enemies deal less damage in Stage Mode - these are okay.
* Using EXE to fix specific bugs & improve QOL without hindering normal gameplay - also okay.
* Relying on new features in a way that cannot be done in original LF2 - NOT acceptable.
* Directly lowering Henry's D^J flute damage from EXE - NOT acceptable.
* I also will not use ddraw.dll AI for any character that appears in Stage Mode as a mandatory enemy.

Lastly, I will now always ensure that I can just launch my own mod and play it.

Previously, I tried to apply my old LF2 Demake's project methods of planning everything out perfectly and then creating everything from scratch. This method does not work for a project whose scope is to be an extension of the original LF2 rather than a full re-creation. I overthought everything to perfection and was never able to play out my own mod, making me lose sight of the goal and change my mind multiple times, causing me to lose motivation.

If I can't have fun playing my own mod, I would never be able to finish this mod.


Media:
[Image: BpT6uxf.gif]
Here's a long GIF showing Davis, Henry, Julian, Firen, Dennis.

Beta Download(04-Jan-2021):
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qdBbIDB...tUaKtjIw1r
Hotfix: Bandit picked_caught wasn't changed correctly, John D^J sprites, etc_mirror.

Notable Changes so Far:
Many ideas were tried and scrapped, as I gradually got better at playing, understanding and modding LF2 over the years.
EXE:
* lf2.exe modded by @Leaf.F himself!
* x3 faster loading speed, better F2 pause, "skin" folder.
* Some new features. Fixed an F6 bug. Ik8 no longer overwrites(that means ik8 injury0 will not cancel healing).
* Take only 80% damage from enemies in Stage Mode.
* MP Regen Rate changed from 1-5mp/3tu at 500/400/300/200/100hp, to 2-4mp/3tu at 565/365/165hp.
Data(Main Points): (Click to View)
^ This is quite a long list even for a beta.



This section below may be rather short on info, but there's way more than what I wrote here.
And everyone else who has helped on Discord.
Planned Changes (Click to View)
...and probably more.

Scrapped Ideas (Click to View)
[Image: uMSShyX.png]
~Spy_The_Man1993~
Steiner v3.00 (outdated), Challenge Stage v1.51
Luigi's Easier Data-Editor, A-Man's Sprite Mirrorer
Working on the LF2 Rebalance mod.
Avatar styled by: prince_freeza
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#2
Yay! Good thing you scrapped a bunch of the old stuff, the sprites I made for new moves really weren't good at all. I think so far weapon minions are my favourite thing in here, as much as I despise fighting againts flying kicker, boss Mark, yet with his new sprites, is brilliant. I think left (his right) arm could use more shadow. Any reason there is no b sprites for criminals?
I'm hoping to see an update with all new moves mentioned in the post soon, before going for stuff like revive and "AI manipulation system", which whatever it might be, sounds cool.
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#3
Current Guideline; last updated 19 December 2021.

General
* antiInf(knockdown) / stunExt(0dmg) / addLoophole.
* InjuryBounce fix.
* Add state3000 to >>JA (AI_block).
* Damage/Fall/Bdefend adjustments.

[Image: uMSShyX.png]
~Spy_The_Man1993~
Steiner v3.00 (outdated), Challenge Stage v1.51
Luigi's Easier Data-Editor, A-Man's Sprite Mirrorer
Working on the LF2 Rebalance mod.
Avatar styled by: prince_freeza
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#4
[Image: uMSShyX.png]
~Spy_The_Man1993~
Steiner v3.00 (outdated), Challenge Stage v1.51
Luigi's Easier Data-Editor, A-Man's Sprite Mirrorer
Working on the LF2 Rebalance mod.
Avatar styled by: prince_freeza
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#5
(01-18-2021, 04:10 PM)STM1993 Wrote:  * I do wonder if having only 1 move is too plain though, and I don't want some of my old HeroMinion ideas to go to waste, like "Weapon Steal", "Transmute", "Re-Roll F8 Weapon", "Timelock"...

Those sounds perfect from what I imagine them to be like, like teamplate is messing with "reality", or kinda the game itself.

(01-18-2021, 04:10 PM)STM1993 Wrote:  Instead of making weapons, maybe Transmute a weapon currently on hand to something else? Combine with D>J to stop AI from picking up weapons so that he can use them himself. This also kinda solves my concern about giving John vrest >>JA directly since this still needs him to pick up a weapon. Will also need to allow Milk to be transmuted into a weapon(important for Survival where you can't get any weapon drops due to the accumulation of milks), but not in a way that refreshes the contents of the milk.

Again, a weapon related move fits and even connects the dots, as for why his shield has this special feature in the first place.
Just don't know what's next. Maybe it gives John some melee buff for his wand?

(01-18-2021, 04:10 PM)STM1993 Wrote:  * Buff normal shuriken mp15->0 and z-axis aim from 2.5 to 3.

Why shurikens don't cost any mana, while arrows still does?

(01-18-2021, 04:10 PM)STM1993 Wrote:  * I'm not sure whether Rudolf needs a new move. Probably not?

Everyone should get one :T

(01-18-2021, 04:10 PM)STM1993 Wrote:  * I wonder if there's a way to punish people who abuse F6 with Rudolf without wrongly punishing those who use Beer.

How do you even abuse F6 in normal game, I'm using it only for testing moves

(01-18-2021, 04:10 PM)STM1993 Wrote:  * Not sure whether I should still allow Louis to transform into BossLouisEX (DJA+DJA, hplock via mpregen).

Nah, leave him as just a stage enemy. There isn't even any way to distinguish boss version from regular one on first sight

(01-18-2021, 04:10 PM)STM1993 Wrote:  * DvJ is currently an ArmorUp Buff(courtesy of Nyamaiku), with low MP cost but uses Louis's original HP lock mechanism. Unlike similar skills in other mods, I do NOT allow it to stack infinitely.

So you can use it only once and only when your hp is below 33%? Then maybe make it so it gives better protection than one additional hit an armor can take

(01-18-2021, 04:10 PM)STM1993 Wrote:  * Add DJA for giving ice sword to others directly.

Haha, will you be able to supply your army with swords, or is it a multiplayer only (requring an input) move?

(01-18-2021, 04:10 PM)STM1993 Wrote:  Awesome fun in Stage. Actually the weakest of the 4 Bosses.

He really is fun against big group of enemies. I'd like to see a good op mod with characters edited to fit this kind of play.
Also, I'd like to see an army vs army phases in stage mode, then maybe delete minions that survived, so it wouldn't be only "final battle" thing

(01-18-2021, 04:10 PM)STM1993 Wrote:  * I need a replacement for her role, but I still want to keep her as a character and give her Revive.

How about making her orb into some sort of drone helper in stage mode? Would use weaker version of Jan's attacks, maybe not even need to make it a t0 but a player's chasing type 3?
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#6
(01-18-2021, 11:33 PM)The_Hari Wrote:  Why shurikens don't cost any mana, while arrows still does?
...
Everyone should get one :T
...
How do you even abuse F6 in normal game, I'm using it only for testing moves
Rudolf needs to land 3 hits to stun an enemy, and MP Regen is disabled during Invisibility.
It feels wrong for Rudolf to lose his most basic attack(specifically 2nd & 3rd star) when his MP is low.
In contrast, Henry only needs 1 shot to stun and can slowly inch his way closer with every shot(consistent rate of fire too unlike Rudolf). He only needs hit_a for JAA or >>J<A. The MP cost overall serves to discourage spamming so that players may reserve their MP for Henry's actual special moves.

For consistency yes, but what can I give Rudolf without breaking the feel of his character? The main thing is, same as Henry, I don't want to give him a DvA melee that has sufficiently fast startup to act as a counter after blocking, or an escape. Also, Rudolf has DJA to expand his moveset. I'm okay with the new move being a variant of an existing move.

I'm referring to F6 Invis+Clones, and I don't want to do it in a way that "de-links" the clones because it means they won't transform when Rudolf does. Come to think of it, F7+Clones is unfixable. This is low priority though since its not an issue with the main game.

(01-18-2021, 11:33 PM)The_Hari Wrote:  So you can use it only once and only when your hp is below 33%? Then maybe make it so it gives better protection than one additional hit an armor can take
...
Haha, will you be able to supply your army with swords, or is it a multiplayer only (requring an input) move?
...
Also, I'd like to see an army vs army phases in stage mode, then maybe delete minions that survived, so it wouldn't be only "final battle" thing
ArmorBuff can be used multiple times as long as Louis' HP is low(or lf2.net is enabled). However, unlike other mods, re-casting only resets the buff(eg: always sets to armor+1) instead of being able to stack the buff infinitely(eg: armor+1,+2,+3,+4...).

Freeze DJA is actually just normal DvJ, but Freeze summons the sword directly to the air instead of holding it in his own hand, so he doesn't need to drop his own weapon or throw the new ice sword. Its a largely quality-of-life change, and something like DvJJ input is not an option due to the current weapon being dropped instantly on 1st frame via wpoint kind 3.

Definitely a good idea for the army deletion, and I know a DC method to make that whole system work. It relies on Players not being able to go past the x:0 border, but all spawned Coms can.

(01-18-2021, 11:33 PM)The_Hari Wrote:  How about making her orb into some sort of drone helper in stage mode? Would use weaker version of Jan's attacks, maybe not even need to make it a t0 but a player's chasing type 3?
Not really a fan of the drone idea, but I do want to do something about her very existence.
For healing, I'm definitely replacing her with some kind of D^J dispenser in Stage.
[Image: uMSShyX.png]
~Spy_The_Man1993~
Steiner v3.00 (outdated), Challenge Stage v1.51
Luigi's Easier Data-Editor, A-Man's Sprite Mirrorer
Working on the LF2 Rebalance mod.
Avatar styled by: prince_freeza
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#7
(01-19-2021, 04:36 AM)STM1993 Wrote:  I'm referring to F6 Invis+Clones, and I don't want to do it in a way that "de-links" the clones because it means they won't transform when Rudolf does. Come to think of it, F7+Clones is unfixable. This is low priority though since its not an issue with the main game.

Yeah I got it, what I meant was, why do you want to punish using cheats, cheating with cheats is their whole reason to be xD Anyway, mainly I meant not to put your time into something like this, at least for now.

(01-19-2021, 04:36 AM)STM1993 Wrote:  ArmorBuff can be used multiple times as long as Louis' HP is low(or lf2.net is enabled). However, unlike other mods, re-casting only resets the buff(eg: always sets to armor+1) instead of being able to stack the buff infinitely(eg: armor+1,+2,+3,+4...).

I'm fine with it being like this, makes it more special, but only +1 armor = one additional punch as I suppose, is kinda weak, especially as it's already limited and sort of "last resort" kind of move. I would say it could be at least armor +2, Julian is running around with +3 all the time and Louis can't even transform into boss character anymore

(01-19-2021, 04:36 AM)STM1993 Wrote:  Freeze DJA is actually just normal DvJ, but Freeze summons the sword directly to the air instead of holding it in his own hand, so he doesn't need to drop his own weapon or throw the new ice sword. Its a largely quality-of-life change, and something like DvJJ input is not an option due to the current weapon being dropped instantly on 1st frame via wpoint kind 3.

Ah, too bad, well, throwing a sword on the ground is enough to be sure someone is gonna take it in a moment, but would be cool to actually visually put it into one's hand. Could be easily done with cpoint
and new frame for every character

(01-19-2021, 04:36 AM)STM1993 Wrote:  Definitely a good idea for the army deletion, and I know a DC method to make that whole system work. It relies on Players not being able to go past the x:0 border, but all spawned Coms can.

Oh, didn't know about it, I wanted to do it by messing with simple AI script for all of the minions and make them run to the left when it's certain stage and then delete themselves with an input, just wasn't sure how would "reserve" work with that.
Kinda fun, how you think you get a whole army at the end of stage 2-3 and then when 2-4 starts, all of them just run away
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