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08-15-2011, 03:15 AM
The key issues here is:
1. The work that belongs to the original NTSD team. (Sprites. Data.) And whether you have obtained prior permission to use them out of courtesy.
2. The murky perception of the differentiation between your NTSD: Final Edition in and the original NTSD.
1. As far as I am aware, which may not be totally accurate. All sprites and data in NTSD was created by The Nave and the rest of the original NTSD development team, and considering the amount of content, that has to be a LOT of effort and dedication put it.
It is simply a matter of courtesy and good ethics to ask the original authors for permission to use these things, before embarking on editing projects, especially when they authors are still easily contactable and the content in question is still relatively new. Try spriting a full character on your own and the difficulty that you'll definitely agree with this. Writing a single line of credit in general to the original creators simply does not cut it.
Otherwise.. you have no right to complain of them coming down on you and roasting the sh*t out of your arses with flaming comments... since after all.. that's all they can do to protect their own work(not their right to the characters and designs.. but their right to the sprite and data assets... which DO belong to them)...
Of course.. when that happens.. its a lose-lose situation for both parties.. so the obvious choice would be to go with the 1st option.
I don't care what you guys think is the morally right thing to do... it matters not in circumstances where most forms of laws are not easily enforceable.... only the consequences of all actions matter.
2.The murky perception of the differentiation between your NTSD:FE, and the original NTSD.
This looks like a possible reason for The Nave's annoyance... and again.. whether or not its valid does not matter to me.. only the consequence of the lack of clarification. (And if you guys still have no idea what the consequences are.. its this stupid flame war where all parties are attacking each other on specifics that are endless... and that will not lead anywhere.)
Again.. this has a little to do with the generic credit line to the NTSD team... and largely more to do with your presentation of information on your mod.
a) You say your mod is an update to the original NTSD, however.. most users here have not had the opportunity to try the original NTSD...
which means... when you simply display gifs that are supposed to illustrate the updates.. but provide no gifs of the original content for us to make comparisons with...
inadvertently the bunch of idiots here will assume the whole thing is done by you... or assume varying degrees and ratios of credit and stuff.. the accuracy of which does not matter... only the consequence that there is the potential for unintentional 'stealing'.
This issue is furthur compounded by the fact that the name of your edit is NTSD:Final Edition. which has the tendency to imply that its an OFFICIAL ORIGINAL NTSD expansion or update... which in fact.. you have stated yourself... is not.
Again.. not totally your fault. its the fault of the internet for being populated with fools and morons. However.. being a participant in the internet... you have the opportunity to take the initiative to not join the ranks of fools and morons.... and account for their idiocity so that you may protect yourself from inadvertently inciting the rage of the non-idiots that you have based your project upon.
However... @THE NAVE:
This last bit is easily remedied on your part. Just release NTSD:THE ORIGINAL EDITION here again. I don't know if its been my lack of searching ability.. but I have not found any working links to your mod... whether on this site or elsewhere... however... if I can't find it... the rest of the forum likely will have difficulty finding it as well.... which contributes to the undue association of the bulk of what we see here to the Final Edition mod instead of your original NTSD mod.. as it rightly ought to deserve.
So, The Nave and Surik... as you may well consider yourselves not amongst the ranks of fools... discuss this sensibly and come to an accommodation of sorts on your own? I dare not propose any compromise as I am severely lacking in information on the mods in question.
Also.. where the f*** are our moderators?
I'm turning into one huge backseat mod and vigilante... which is largely against the rules... and not to my bloody liking.
I'm just a regular member here.. I ought to only have to kick back, relax, and enjoy the ride goddamnit!
1. The work that belongs to the original NTSD team. (Sprites. Data.) And whether you have obtained prior permission to use them out of courtesy.
2. The murky perception of the differentiation between your NTSD: Final Edition in and the original NTSD.
1. As far as I am aware, which may not be totally accurate. All sprites and data in NTSD was created by The Nave and the rest of the original NTSD development team, and considering the amount of content, that has to be a LOT of effort and dedication put it.
It is simply a matter of courtesy and good ethics to ask the original authors for permission to use these things, before embarking on editing projects, especially when they authors are still easily contactable and the content in question is still relatively new. Try spriting a full character on your own and the difficulty that you'll definitely agree with this. Writing a single line of credit in general to the original creators simply does not cut it.
Otherwise.. you have no right to complain of them coming down on you and roasting the sh*t out of your arses with flaming comments... since after all.. that's all they can do to protect their own work(not their right to the characters and designs.. but their right to the sprite and data assets... which DO belong to them)...
Of course.. when that happens.. its a lose-lose situation for both parties.. so the obvious choice would be to go with the 1st option.
I don't care what you guys think is the morally right thing to do... it matters not in circumstances where most forms of laws are not easily enforceable.... only the consequences of all actions matter.
what's that I see? self contradiction? (Click to View)
2.The murky perception of the differentiation between your NTSD:FE, and the original NTSD.
This looks like a possible reason for The Nave's annoyance... and again.. whether or not its valid does not matter to me.. only the consequence of the lack of clarification. (And if you guys still have no idea what the consequences are.. its this stupid flame war where all parties are attacking each other on specifics that are endless... and that will not lead anywhere.)
Again.. this has a little to do with the generic credit line to the NTSD team... and largely more to do with your presentation of information on your mod.
a) You say your mod is an update to the original NTSD, however.. most users here have not had the opportunity to try the original NTSD...
which means... when you simply display gifs that are supposed to illustrate the updates.. but provide no gifs of the original content for us to make comparisons with...
inadvertently the bunch of idiots here will assume the whole thing is done by you... or assume varying degrees and ratios of credit and stuff.. the accuracy of which does not matter... only the consequence that there is the potential for unintentional 'stealing'.
This issue is furthur compounded by the fact that the name of your edit is NTSD:Final Edition. which has the tendency to imply that its an OFFICIAL ORIGINAL NTSD expansion or update... which in fact.. you have stated yourself... is not.
Again.. not totally your fault. its the fault of the internet for being populated with fools and morons. However.. being a participant in the internet... you have the opportunity to take the initiative to not join the ranks of fools and morons.... and account for their idiocity so that you may protect yourself from inadvertently inciting the rage of the non-idiots that you have based your project upon.
However... @THE NAVE:
This last bit is easily remedied on your part. Just release NTSD:THE ORIGINAL EDITION here again. I don't know if its been my lack of searching ability.. but I have not found any working links to your mod... whether on this site or elsewhere... however... if I can't find it... the rest of the forum likely will have difficulty finding it as well.... which contributes to the undue association of the bulk of what we see here to the Final Edition mod instead of your original NTSD mod.. as it rightly ought to deserve.
So, The Nave and Surik... as you may well consider yourselves not amongst the ranks of fools... discuss this sensibly and come to an accommodation of sorts on your own? I dare not propose any compromise as I am severely lacking in information on the mods in question.
Also.. where the f*** are our moderators?
I'm turning into one huge backseat mod and vigilante... which is largely against the rules... and not to my bloody liking.
I'm just a regular member here.. I ought to only have to kick back, relax, and enjoy the ride goddamnit!
"I may devour the five continents, and swallow the three seas, but a body with neither wings, nor hands, nor feet, is powerless against the sky."
My stuff:
| sprites | frozen |
My stuff:
| sprites | frozen |
Want to learn how to sprite from me? (Click to View)
have a request for me? (Click to View)
I won't post my opinion about this ^, cuz it will not matter.(Oh and because my lack of brains) BUT ntsd continueing is a very good thing for us regular NTSD players, even if it's not on the level of the ntsd team, it's still very nice to add all those things and also new things for us to try in the game. The bug fixes are very nice, and the new attacks as well. The old regular 2.4 had gotten boring after 2 years, but these small things got me interested again. 