alf2 - current state: fire/ice affinity exception

[YinYin]

in alf2 i have given firen, freeze and firzen an affinity or immunity to ice and fire attacks: [link]
this works on almost every attack except for two:
the inferno and the ice sword
pretty unspectacular :D

how it normally works and why these two cause problems (Click to View)

how it works:
every fire and ice attack has a seperate itr written above the original one
this one has the same dimensions, but no effect and different injury and fall values
it is also located at a certain distance on the y axis below the ground

the character that should be affected by this new itr has a bdy at the same height below the ground

itrs in a frame are acting from top to bottom, if the first one already hit the second one may not be carried out anymore
so it is pretty simple to give the first one a different effect, damage level and anything else you like

the problem with firens inferno is that these frames would generally allow self hits due to their state
but the fire effect used there is special so that this doesn't happen, however any itr that does not have this fire effect will not only hit teammates aswell (other firens/firzens) but mostly hit firen himself when he walks into the flames
this is something i cannot put up with

the problem with the ice sword is that weapons use special damage settings in their itrs from the header if the wpoint inside the character specifies any attacking
this however only allows for one kind of itr to be carried out inside an on_hand frame when attacking

the question is:
should i keep these exceptions or search for a way to enable immunity on those too?

if i keep them i will probably add some visual effects to these two moves when they hit the corresponding character to underline the fact that these are too powerful for them to handle

if you want me to keep searching for a solution i will probably need your help and ideas on how this could still be done
i think it is not possible with data changing only and will require hex editing - but i am open for you to prove me wrong

[Azriel]

for the ice sword, is it possible for the sword itself to hold another weapon, and the other weapon has a different itr somewhere else? (untested idea)



Azriel~

[YinYin]

thats possible but it will first of all alienate the spawning of the ice sword because freeze will need to pick it up after it has created itself the second weapon
and second i dont think the attacking from freeze' wpoint will carry over through the ice sword to the second weapon - thus the itrs will not be active at the same time the way it is needed

[mfc]

the problem with the ice sword is that weapons use special damage settings in their itrs from the header if the wpoint inside the character specifies any attacking

Have an idea about this one:
Make the weapon "Weapon opoints an invisible ball which has itr's like u want(from above to ground) in it's(weapon's) hit-frames"
It would solve the header problem...

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the problem with firens inferno is that these frames would generally allow self hits due to their state
but the fire effect used there is special so that this doesn't happen, however any itr that does not have this fire effect will not only hit teammates aswell (other firens/firzens) but mostly hit firen himself when he walks into the flames
this is something i cannot put up with

is it about the effect: 21 ?

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And here is a tip (Maybe you already know): state: 19 allows you to immune to burning chars.
When you are so close to another char, if you burn him, you got burnt too.
state: 19 can be used for some of moves.
When firen is opointing inferno; you can add state: 19 in it's frames.
But state: 19 is belong to burn_run.
So it allows you to use ^V keys.
So you must use dvz: 550 in the frames of state: 19 which you don't want it "to go up or down".
This consept is used in R-LF2.

[YinYin]

Have an idea about this one:
Make the weapon "Weapon opoints an invisible ball which has itr's like u want(from above to ground) in it's(weapon's) hit-frames"
It would solve the header problem...

i dont know whether i understand you correctly but i have already tried this (in case its what you mean):
making the sword constantly spawn an object
changing all the swords itrs so that they will only hit this object
the object, if hit by the sword, will then perform the actual damaging and thus can have the ice immunity

this works but there are several problems about it:
first of all it makes the sword lag - whenever you swing it even without hitting an opponent it will look like you are hitting something
second you are loosing the 4 different attack strengths from the header - you can only have one with this

the problem with firens inferno is that these frames would generally allow self hits due to their state
but the fire effect used there is special so that this doesn't happen, however any itr that does not have this fire effect will not only hit teammates aswell (other firens/firzens) but mostly hit firen himself when he walks into the flames
this is something i cannot put up with

is it about the effect: 21 ?

if thats the one used inside the flame frames yes
also state 19 doesnt help me here because this is not about firen getting burnt by burning characters - but getting hit by the affinity itr inside the flame he is creating himself - which doesnt burn him

[Bamboori]

what about making the itr hit the invisible ball/weapon instead? and depending on if its destroyed or not, it makes different damage. that would result in at least 2 different strenghts.

edit:
@YinYin below: yes, thats pretty much what i meant

[YinYin]

i dont quite understand
the hit action always needs to come from the characters wpoint
and you cannot hit the spawned object into different frames by having different areas cause these are set for each on hand frame

you could possibly only make the 4 different itr specifications in the header of the weapon have different kind/effect/fall values which could make the object react differently if hit by them

i dont know whether that can get us up to 4 different reactions - but even if, the sword will still lag on every swing

[Siegvar]

i dont know whether that can get us up to 4 different reactions - but even if, the sword will still lag on every swing

Resprite the ice sword into a heavy axe.. or hammer. Problem solved.
"lag? what? lag. the ice hammer of doom is heavy, haven't you heard of momentum?"
>.>
<.<

I couldn't help myself, I had to say it.

[mfc]

the problem with firens inferno is that these frames would generally allow self hits due to their state
but the fire effect used there is special so that this doesn't happen, however any itr that does not have this fire effect will not only hit teammates aswell (other firens/firzens) but mostly hit firen himself when he walks into the flames
this is something i cannot put up with

is it about the effect: 21 ?

if thats the one used inside the flame frames yes

Here is the difference between effect: 2 and 21 (Copied from mainsite)

Effect: 2 Sound: 070/071.wav
Effect: Fire, can hit burning characters, weapons fly away
Ex.: Firen's Firerun

Effect: 21 Sound: 070/071.wav
Effect: Fire, burning characters are immune to effect 20/21, weapons fly away
Ex.: Firen's Inferno

Is that "itr with effect: 21" prevents you to give it "alternative immunity itr" below the screen?

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If your problem is in there, I think there is only one thing to do left: Changing the effect 21 to 2.

If you ask me, flame with effect: 2 looks better.
In SV-LF2, killing333 used that.
He gave an extra special body below the screen to every char's fire frames.
And gave a new itr to flames which has smaller injury value below the screen.
Once somebody gets hit by normal flame itr, hee keeps getting hit by smaller itrs.
This is how he balanced the injury-decreasing level.
But in the end, I like the way that flame hits enemy more than 1 time.

If effect: 2 is going to solve your problem, You can try that.

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[YinYin]

i do not want to change the way the flame works - so now effect 2

also
the flame uses state 18
this allows it to hit team mates (just like burning characters)
effect: 21 makes an exception here and does not hit teammates
whenever i add any other itr that does not have this effect (to hit firen without burning him) it will hit firen himself

somehow the last time i tested changing 18 to 19 inside the flame frames it didnt work
this time it did ... 19 does not allow team hits
lets see whether it withstands further testing

so - forget about the fire for now
think about the ice sword