[C] Walker - 2.08

[YinYin]

Thanks, I got it to work somehow. If you are close to the corner Spectre Kick will bounce them back to you.

Awesome, this should always happen when characters are knocked against a wall in lf2. (I hate them getting stuck there and combos extending infinitely)

The +3F hop is in this patch

Better but still not my cup of tea. I bet he will make a really cool com opponent but not a well playable character.

new kind of Phantom Guard > Phantom Punch.

This one is ridiculous. Why so high? Also why is the phantom punch always hidden behind another action? Next to the no run hop this is the second reason why his controls are very clumsy. PD and PGs only purpose seems to be starting the PP when it would be much easier to start it with a ground D^A.

increasing distance and/or duration of Phantom Dash

Only do that if you also increase the time frame in which you can do the PP (I think it's too short - I often end up just dashing into the opponent without doing it and getting my a** kicked).

adding zwidth to Spectre Punch

That would require a radically new and well done animation to justify larger than normal zwidth on a melee attack.

adding some wall bounce to JK

Add wall bounce to everything(!) - Just to see how over powered he gets with it.

Maybe also add the kick/dash attack to the hop or allow dashing after it like after the jump.

[支倉凍砂]

Awesome, this should always happen when characters are knocked against a wall in lf2. (I hate them getting stuck there and combos extending infinitely)

Pleased to hear that you like it.

Better but still not my cup of tea. I bet he will make a really cool com opponent but not a well playable character.

Your words are true. I beginning to think that a normal run would maybe make him stronger, but I also like to keep the uniqueness.
What do you think about increasing the acceleration, i.e. jump distance?

This one is ridiculous. Why so high? Also why is the phantom punch always hidden behind another action? Next to the no run hop this is the second reason why his controls are very clumsy. PD and PGs only purpose seems to be starting the PP when it would be much easier to start it with a ground D^A.

Because I went crazy in this "experimental" patch. The sole reason he can do PP from PG is that was what I used as the counterattack before I programmed the throw. There is no real need to keep it really.
The reason why PP was originally only available from PD is because that is how it works for the character I ripped the move off.
Difference being, in that game, characters are solid objects so you cannot dash through them.
I've been wondering if it is possible to make an invisible projectile attach to opponent and create an itr: 14 wall so you cannot dash throw, but it seems complicated.
It's not like I can't change it to be its own command.

Only do that if you also increase the time frame in which you can do the PP (I think it's too short - I often end up just dashing into the opponent without doing it and getting my a** kicked).

Of course. ; )
Though I have more of a problem with even Deeps projectiles outranging PDs range.

That would require a radically new and well done animation to justify larger than normal zwidth on a melee attack.

Well, he hits around himself as he spins is my logic. With some proper graphics some magical light could appear around him as well.

Add wall bounce to everything(!) - Just to see how over powered he gets with it.

lol
Will do.

Maybe also add the kick/dash attack to the hop or allow dashing after it like after the jump.

I have considered adding an attack.
What would need to be done to allow dashing?

How do you feel about the new JK? On maximum range grounded opponent recovers much faster than you and characters like Deep can instantly punish you for it. Only on close range you can follow up into SP.
I'm thinking either making it knockdown or giving it negativ knockback to allow SP easier.

[YinYin]

What do you think about increasing the acceleration, i.e. jump distance?

Ultimately it would result in an instant dash - which would be ok because that usually is what you aim for anyway when you start to run.

Difference being, in that game, characters are solid objects so you cannot dash through them.
I've been wondering if it is possible to make an invisible projectile attach to opponent and create an itr: 14 wall so you cannot dash throw, but it seems complicated.
It's not like I can't change it to be its own command.

Actually that doesn't seem too complicated. The only problem I see is getting stuck at that object inside a speedy looking frame (like running against a crate). That'd be stupid.
A better solution would be allowing to start the PP at any point inside the PD or automatically starting the PP upon touching an opponent (itr kind 3).
Also I think the PD could end with a punch if the player doesn't input anything (the frames right next to the speed line frames on the sprite sheet).
It would be similar to Bats speed punch.
And yea a separate input for the PP would be great.

What would need to be done to allow dashing?

Land in state 6.

How do you feel about the new JK? On maximum range grounded opponent recovers much faster than you and characters like Deep can instantly punish you for it. Only on close range you can follow up into SP.
I'm thinking either making it knockdown or giving it negativ knockback to allow SP easier.

Negative knock back = pulling him towards you with a kick? That wouldn't make much sense.
Could you instead increase the knock back without destroying the follow up on close range? That would require the opponent to waste your recovery time by closing in on you again so you might get a chance to roll or dash away.

[支倉凍砂]

Ultimately it would result in an instant dash - which would be ok because that usually is what you aim for anyway when you start to run.

I guess I'll bring it along for the next experimental patch. ; )

Actually that doesn't seem too complicated. The only problem I see is getting stuck at that object inside a speedy looking frame (like running against a crate). That'd be stupid.
A better solution would be allowing to start the PP at any point inside the PD or automatically starting the PP upon touching an opponent (itr kind 3).

Is that what happens anyway if you try to run through a crate or rock?
I'll include faster cancel to PP in next patch.

Also I think the PD could end with a punch if the player doesn't input anything (the frames right next to the speed line frames on the sprite sheet).
It would be similar to Bats speed punch.

I do like when I dash through Henry's arrows and get to do a full combo of a normal A afterwards.[/quote]

And yea a separate input for the PP would be great.[/quote]
I'll save it for later, I want to see if it is possible to play without it. If it turns out to be as bad as it is now it will get seperate command.

Could you instead increase the knock back without destroying the follow up on close range? That would require the opponent to waste your recovery time by closing in on you again so you might get a chance to roll or dash away.

Sounds good.

[YinYin]

I do like when I dash through Henry's arrows and get to do a full combo of a normal A afterwards.

Again you can easily have both when you think about how Davis' run attack can be cancelled by pressing attack midway (you stop earlier but miss an opportunity to hit a falling opponent).

[支倉凍砂]

I have been busy with writing a game proposal to get a job this week, and next week I will probably be programming for an other application. I'll try to get something out next Sunday too.

think about how Davis' run attack can be cancelled by pressing attack midway

I so didn't know that! XD



Experimental Patch 2.03

• Jump height, jump distance and dash distance increased
  
• Hop has had its speed and distanced increased, and you can now dash after it
  
• Super A now launches opponent closer and moves Walker less
  
• JK start-up changed from 3F to 4F. Now always causes knockdown and wall bounces. Damaged increased to 40 from 30.
  
• Phantom Dash is now total 17F up from 11F, the low hurtbox and cancelability to Phantom Punch has therefore also increased from 3F～8F to 3F～14F. You can now instantly cancel to Phantom Punch at point-blank range, and also the start-up has been hasten from 6F to 4F.
  
• Phantom Guard Phantom Punch launces lower
  

I think that's about it.
I removed the split hitbox from JK as it was really awkward when you hit opponent in air (not in a combo).

The longer PD looks a little stupid to me, but it works better than before.
The "buffed" hop works better as well, but it's not exactly perfect.

I spent some time trying to make an anti-projectile counterattack, but to no avail.
Basically I had Walker create a ball in front on him, opponent can destroy this ball with attacks (rebound) but other balls and such put it in its "active mode", where it becomes a slow moving wall (effect: 14) that rebounds balls (effect: 4).
However, I realised that is changes team to opponent so while it certainly rebounds balls back to opponent they just miss and the wall itself hurt Walker.
It is not included in this patch. And I'm not sure I like it either (at least now for him): Phantom Dash is supposed to be his anti-projectile move anyway so it felt a little redundant.


What I am thinking about now:

• removing Phantom Punch follow-up from Phantom Guard. Maybe instead add a stronger throw attack (maybe like Walker 1.03 "Impact").
  
• As I use the Super Punch motion for the counterattack, should he get a new Super Punch?
  
• Deeps normal A and Strike hits so low that Phantom Dash cannot go through them. Strike also has magical 3F start-up with amazing range making hop SK a very dangerous aproach as well. Is this how it should be, or should I do something about it (add projectile move or long-range counterattack or attack-while-moving-forward-attack...)?
  

Download link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/j0wtzyyztiri1y....03%5D.rar

As always, comments & suggestions are welcome.

[YinYin]

Phantom Guard Phantom Punch launces lower

It still looks ridiculous because it goes up so perfectly straight without any x motion.

However, I realised that is changes team to opponent so while it certainly rebounds balls back to opponent they just miss and the wall itself hurt Walker.

You could again use the little drop held object trick - same as the wall bounce - to rebound without changing teams. (held object becoming the rebounded one - but not changing teams because it was created before the parent object got hit)

removing Phantom Punch follow-up from Phantom Guard. Maybe instead add a stronger throw attack.

Certainly do that - even though I would miss the non jump PP.

As I use the Super Punch motion for the counterattack, should he get a new Super Punch?

The non jump PP perhaps?

Deeps normal A and Strike hits so low that Phantom Dash cannot go through them. Strike also has magical 3F start-up with amazing range making hop SK a very dangerous aproach as well. Is this how it should be, or should I do something about it (add projectile move or long-range counterattack or attack-while-moving-forward-attack...)?

Maybe you should consider making the PD shorter again - but go all the way with its evasive properties: just like Rudolfs dodge, no body.

Also should you ever consider making him run again I would really love to see this as his run attack:

Similar to Woodys, except you would need to continue a combo after the second hit as the last one knocks down.

edit: gotta add - I agree with everything else.

[Gespenst]

actualy thing which I dont like about sprites that it looks strange when frames are changing and details are getting bigger and smaller,

[支倉凍砂]

You could again use the little drop held object trick - same as the wall bounce - to rebound without changing teams. (held object becoming the rebounded one - but not changing teams because it was created before the parent object got hit)

Do you think the move sounds interesting at all?
Maybe it fits another character more?

Maybe you should consider making the PD shorter again - but go all the way with its evasive properties: just like Rudolfs dodge, no body.

Also should you ever consider making him run again I would really love to see this as his run attack:

Similar to Woodys, except you would need to continue a combo after the second hit as the last one knocks down.

I have considered giving back the running to him, I think a character would need a weapon (Deep/LouisEX) to be able to use it properly, but...
I am a little afraid that SK will fall into disuse. But then again you get access to a run J dash so maybe not...

actualy thing which I dont like about sprites that it looks strange when frames are changing and details are getting bigger and smaller,

If you can specify which moves/frames/sprites it easier to improve.

[Gespenst]

Sorry for not saying which frame.
The one yinyin is talking