What makes a good LF2 Character?

[Kezeal]

In my opinion, a good LF2 character needs:
Fitting sprites(an NTSD character in the original LF2 wouldn't fit at all)
Original moves(just mix'n'matching LF2 character moves is not that interesting for me)
Balanced(or at least a bit. If you create a character with fitting sprites and original moves, but each move is an instakill, I won't want to play it)

These all were mentioned here, but most of you had more things you required. Just wanted to mention I'm glad with only these three.

[Dr.Death]

So it doesn't matter to you if you hear retarded bad sounds with bad qualiy always if you do a move?

What do you think about balanced "press 10 buttons combos" like in R-LF2 if you know that Version.
I don't really like combos you can't really use. In R-LF2 you can do that only because they are OP but if they were balanced it would be just stupid, in my opinion at least.

[YinYin]

Here is something more people tend to miss: The keys of a special input are always highly related to the move they perform.
In the same way for every character actually, which makes them a lot more intuitive and easy to remember.

The defend key is always the same, but the other 5 define what kind of move it is.

special inputs that contain the Attack button (D>A, D^A, DvA)
These are always very basic. Their only purpose being to attack the opponent.
That's right, you won't find a healing, teleporting, shielding, duplicating, disappearing, item creating or transforming move or anything special like that here on the original little fighters.
So try to keep it simple too.

special inputs that contain the Jump button (D>J, D^J, DvJ)
These moves are always a little more special than the attacking ones:
they do a lot more damage (Firens explosion)
or they inflict dance of pain (Rudolfs leap attack)
or they have a large area of effect (Woodys tiger dash)
or they aren't even used as an attack. (Freeze' ice sword)
These moves generally use more objects and energy effects than the attacking moves.

special inputs that contain the > (forward) button (D>A, D>J)
These are the only ones that allow you to change direction as your perform them, so you need to use them carefully. If the special move doesn't take advantage of this you might as well use a different input.
Either the move has a very strong sense of direction, like non chasing projectiles (simple ones are always on D>A) or a move with a crucial dvx.
But it could also be as important that the up and down keys can be used to control or aim this move and thus should not be included in the input so they don't interfere with that feature.

special inputs that contain the ^ (up) button (D^A, D^J)
These moves always have at least one of these properties: overhead/upward/releasing/outward/offensive.
Johns disk for example is an overhead object releasing move, Davis' dragon punch is an upward offensive move.
Woodys up teleport goes to the enemy: offensive. Johns up healing is for team mates: outward/releasing.

special inputs that contain the v (down) button (DvA, DvJ)
These moves always have at least one of these properties: ground/downward/creating/inward/defensive.
Compared to the dragon punch (D^A) the shrafe (DvA) for example is a lot more defensive: it repels projectiles during the whole special move and doesn't leave you in such a bad spot if you miss.
Woodys down teleport goes to a team mate: defensive. Johns down healing is for himself: inward.
None of these inputs should ever have your character launch himself upwards unless he does a pretty strong downward crouch first.

By the way: teleport and healing are examples for one special move being distributed over several inputs,
Rudolfs leap attack and Woodys flip kick are examples for basic moves (they don't use mana) on special inputs
and Louis' thunder punch is an example for a special move without special input.
>>When trying to keep the amount of special moves reasonable you only need to pay attention to the ones that use mana (which is crucial for the player to balance their use), no matter how and in how many different ways each one can be performed.

the ominous DJA
I haven't listed it before but it obviously goes into the two first categories (J&A).
That means this thing very well fits a simple attacking move (Henrys multi shot) and a special purpse move (Rudolfs transform).
Most of all it should usually not have any sense of direction (Julians mirror image makes an exception here).
And I would also suggest not to use it unless it's the only option left (like Henry having his two forward inputs already taken, while the up/down inputs would interfere with your multi shot aim).

Another reason why LF2 is great. This too is always done right.

[empirefantasy]

yiyyin made a very good explanation and i have to add something to it about D>J

for a long time i called D>J the "unstoppable" move. Thats becaouse it is usually the strongest offensive move that attacks enemy directly (since it s determined by direction) and it is too hard to be stopped. The best example is woody's D>J, other examples are deep,julian,etc.

What do you think about balanced "press 10 buttons combos" like in R-LF2 if you know that Version.
I don't really like combos you can't really use. In R-LF2 you can do that only because they are OP but if they were balanced it would be just stupid, in my opinion at least.

i agree with that, it is too hard to remember how to do a super move and to combine it in combos. Usually such kind of moves that contain like 10 buttons to press are very powerful ones, but still i dont like that much when you cant use in game without looking on movelist. or at least it would be more acceptable when all chars have the same way do releasing SUPER move.

[eplipswich]

It's been 2 years since this thread began, but I would like to add my 2 cents to it

For me, these are what makes a good LF2 character:

1) Sprite quality (both character and attack sprites)
2) Unique trait in a character (this is why I love most of Yinyin's characters)
3) Originality (Half-original characters like Felix and Liso are okay as well. These characters' sprites may be copy-paste, but at least they're copy-tasted to the point where they're distinct from others.)
4) Clear theme in a character (Like how one can easily tell what kind of character he or she is like. First impression counts. Also, I don't like characters who feel too random. I think Duke by Hiei is one example.)
5) LF2 Style (or close to it)

[Memento]

I'd say:
- The appearance of the character and his moves should belong together
- Projectile moves are similar in color and look
- Not too many projectile moves (it depends on the type of character however. Melee characters: 1-2 max, mixed characters: 2-3 max, ranged characters: 3-4 max imo)
- Data doesn't have to be advanced, it is way more important to me that it is enjoyable. I personally don't like most characters with uber-fancy data.

Now for fair online gameplay:
- Heroes should be somewhat balanced out
- Plenty of combo possibilities for melee characters AND some way to gain advantage of a first hit (may it be either a somewhat faster regular punching, or a good counter move. This is what makes characters like Freeze & Firen somewhat inferior in online battle)
- Extra speed / special adjustments to the basic attacks for long distance characters (like Henry's backward dash attack)

And of course the sprites and data should be of relatively high quality. I only play characters with sprites similar to the original ones and data that is of equal quality.

[STM1993]

I think one thing that is missed in this topic is the purpose of the character. You can have a character with fitting graphics, theme and a nice repertoire of combos and moves, but this character would very well have been over-designed if he was only meant to be a common mook. Very much like the old (but untrue) joke where American astronauts designed a $1000 space pen, while Russian astronauts simply used a $0.25 pencil.

For example, Jan is a weak combatant, but she is one of the most useful characters in the game for her ability to heal everyone. That is her sole purpose and she has fulfilled it; she doesn't need combos. Similarly, Bandit is just bare bones, but he fits into the purpose of being minor obstacles whom you dispatch quickly. I certainly do not want to have a common Bandit kick my butt in stage mode harder than Davis spamming uppercuts.

[Ariel]

Any character that YinYin is involved in

[STM1993]

I've been thinking of the point Memento made relating to online play, we've talked a lot about what makes a good custom LF2 character based on the original, but what makes the original LF2 characters not as great?

For example, the super attacks for some characters tend to be very bad to use. Davis' 2nd hit can be easily avoided by flipping out of the first, and then rolling away where you can easily punch Davis' back - nothing you can really do but avoid using it altogether. Firen's super can be constantly broken defended (but arguably this is a good thing since it puts the enemy in a safer distance for you to use special moves without burning yourself). Deep's is actually pretty interesting, where the first hit does the majority of the damage and pulls you in closer, but even if you blocked that you'd still take 10 damage from the 2nd hit which would be guaranteed to send you to the floor without flipping anyway. As a general rule, dash attacks are pretty overpowered as well.

EDIT:
I'd like to clarify that I'm asking what are some things that could have been done better in the original LF2 and thus serve as a learning point for future characters.

[empirefantasy]

i agree with STM about original characters. the main point is not to make characters who fits the original ones but generally to have balanced moves between each other and a certain level of character power which can not be decided that easily. As you can see characters are for different uses. woody davis etc are good in 1vs1 or small teams, coz they make combos. But jan shows her power only when there are big battles and examples goes on....when you see dash moves they are overpowered becaouse players dont spend mp when they run and not even when they hit, while such kind of hit logically cause that much damage. so that is a point to be kept in mind when making new chars.