How would you imagine an official LF2 update?

[Memento]

This post is important for LF2 Timelapse (see projects), but I believe that only in a separate topic we can keep this discussion organized and going. Besides, this topic could still be used for other mods as a reference of course.

The question is:
"Imagine Marti&Starsky would release an official update. What updates would you like to see?"

---

To make stuff  a little easier for me (and others), please add a [suffix] like this:

[Overall gameplay]
[Characters]
[Weapons]
[Stage/story mode]
[VS mode]
[Battle mode]

> This way I could make a list of suggestions that have been made.


LIST OF SUGGESTIONS

Spoiler (Click to View)

[Overall gameplay]
- Leveling system for characters
- AI improvements


[Characters]
- New moves/skills
- New characters


[Weapons]
- 1 new weapon that makes every player want to be there first, yet it should come with a downside (i.e. explode after holding for >5 seconds)


[Stage mode]
- Story (without too much talking)



[VS mode]



[Battle mode]

[STM1993]

I have my own vision that I'm working on, but I'll give my two cents for Stage Mode:

[Stage/AI]
1. LF2 is hardest alone, but significantly easier and optimal at 2-3p.
2. Difficulty ramps up too much between stages.
3. Tendency to deny players a chance to rest/drink milk during tough segments.
4. AI is too stupid: in 1v1 they are easily beaten, and also too easily lured by weapons which can be exploited massively by high-level players. They are also way too scared of state 3000 projectiles but can't detect any other state (other than state 3 from a character).
5. AI is also too aggressive unlike traditional beat'em up. When the number goes up, they have a tendency to juggle/combo players mercilessly, leading to a very spiky damage curve.

Point #5 is why I'm not happy with the trend of having super-strong AI, in the same way people treat characters as an arms race to create the most OP character. They may be a good opponent for 1v1, but they absolutely do not make good Stage minions. Even as a Boss, they are still questionable if they are used alongside multiple minions. Games are meant to be beaten, not to show the creator's own cleverness.


[Overall gameplay]
What I find most fun about LF2 is being able to perform a satisfying full combo on enemies. Having too much focus on big groups of AI, enemy or ally, breaks this enjoyment.

I also enjoyed PvP, but mostly because I enjoy fighting an opponent with personality. I do not think AI is a suitable replacement, but a reasonably competent AI that doesn't feel like it can input instantly/perfectly will significantly improve the gameplay variety outside of Stage mode.


Misc Thoughts:
Stage 1 is way too easy.
Stage 2 is okay for average player.
Stage 3 is a huge difficulty spike largely due to suddenly having 2 extra projectile users as soldiers and becomes an endurance without milk in 3-4 and 3-5.
Stage 4 and 5 becomes a true army vs army fight.
People rarely get past Wave 20 of Survival unless they are LF2 gods, and Wave 41-49 is a major breakpoint even for competent teams(unless abusing weapon lure) due to spamming waves of more than 5 heroes at once.

[酱油君~]

Leveling system:I'll be curious but,I don't think it's good.

Others I have tryed for several times,but I would be happy if there is an official story.

If you are going to Create a story that fits the official theme very well,or represents the story of all the great men in the course of LF2(maybe stories of their versions),good,I prefer the latter beacuse we can use it to remember them.

My suggestion is to connect them through the character settings of each version,and as you know,through time lapse to make these characters move in a world,it will be very interesting like mugen.

“All people are transfer to a world (perhaps different timelines) and then interact with each other through the same event to solve problems.”

I am thinking about a man that changed the world line and time line to brought all the heroes here,and then They fight and know each other and face that man's "Time cycle".

[LutiChris]

You know what i always hated about vs mode? the fact that after a game is over i have to press F5
would be great to see something like..

best out of 3 or heck how about 5 games?

[Memento]

You know what i always hated about vs mode? the fact that after a game is over i have to press F5
would be great to see something like..

best out of 3 or heck how about 5 games?

I'd love to see something like that, would it be hard in terms of exe editing?

Edit: as for a leveling system, I'd like to see something similar as in battle mode (with defense 1.0x - 3.0x with 0.50 multiplier). If not a real leveling system, then just the option to strengthen individual characters' defences would be a good thing I believe. You can really decide the difficulty of your game then and even work with stronger AIs

[JCostal]

Many things I would like to see improved are in different ways. But, I can define the essentials in three main points: Graphics, Mechanics and AI.

Graphic:
More different enemies and NPC characters in Stage-Mode.
More animations for the characters in general.
MP bar that clearly shows how many skills the character can perform.
It would be a dream run in HD resolution and read other file formats. The LF2 has a fixed camera and, therefore, transparency would help a lot to create more complex scenarios without ruining the gameplay.

Mechanics:
Level system. All bugs fixed. Friendly-fire off (except fire-state). Rebounce projectiles off. More Fall values options.

AI:
It is already dated and needs to be improved as a whole. It would be fun to have some enemies with a different personality in Stage-Mode.

---

I have my own vision that I'm working on, but I'll give my two cents for Stage Mode:

[Stage/AI]
1. LF2 is hardest alone, but significantly easier and optimal at 2-3p.
2. Difficulty ramps up too much between stages.
3. Tendency to deny players a chance to rest/drink milk during tough segments.
4. AI is too stupid: in 1v1 they are easily beaten, and also too easily lured by weapons which can be exploited massively by high-level players. They are also way too scared of state 3000 projectiles but can't detect any other state (other than state 3 from a character).
5. AI is also too aggressive unlike traditional beat'em up. When the number goes up, they have a tendency to juggle/combo players mercilessly, leading to a very spiky damage curve.

Point #5 is why I'm not happy with the trend of having super-strong AI, in the same way people treat characters as an arms race to create the most OP character. They may be a good opponent for 1v1, but they absolutely do not make good Stage minions. Even as a Boss, they are still questionable if they are used alongside multiple minions. Games are meant to be beaten, not to show the creator's own cleverness.


[Overall gameplay]
What I find most fun about LF2 is being able to perform a satisfying full combo on enemies. Having too much focus on big groups of AI, enemy or ally, breaks this enjoyment.

I also enjoyed PvP, but mostly because I enjoy fighting an opponent with personality. I do not think AI is a suitable replacement, but a reasonably competent AI that doesn't feel like it can input instantly/perfectly will significantly improve the gameplay variety outside of Stage mode.


Misc Thoughts:
Stage 1 is way too easy.
Stage 2 is okay for average player.
Stage 3 is a huge difficulty spike largely due to suddenly having 2 extra projectile users as soldiers and becomes an endurance without milk in 3-4 and 3-5.
Stage 4 and 5 becomes a true army vs army fight.
People rarely get past Wave 20 of Survival unless they are LF2 gods, and Wave 41-49 is a major breakpoint even for competent teams(unless abusing weapon lure) due to spamming waves of more than 5 heroes at once.

Very good observation about Stage-Mode.
I think army battles become less intresting because it should be a manageable issue. Every character should overcome this army challenge either with pure power or using elements in a more complex scenario.

My suggestion is to connect them through the character settings of each version,and as you know,through time lapse to make these characters move in a world,it will be very interesting like mugen.

I fully agree.
Im only against texts-dialogues. Not fun.

In my opinion, we can design sprite animations to make the plot more exciting and for all languages.

[酱油君~]

I fully agree.
Im only against texts-dialogues. Not fun.

In my opinion, we can design sprite animations to make the plot more exciting and for all languages.

I don't know if you try the AI-Strengthen at my another thread,in fact it will be complained that it is too difficult to defeat.So I have edit another version of AI that fits to stage mode(done by myself).

Othersides,sprite would be a very lot of work to make preset animation rather than fighting free.

I'd like short dialogue and simple animation, followed by free fighting.

[JCostal]

I fully agree.
Im only against texts-dialogues. Not fun.

In my opinion, we can design sprite animations to make the plot more exciting and for all languages.

I don't know if you try the AI-Strengthen at my another thread,in fact it will be complained that it is too difficult to defeat.So I have edit another version of AI that fits to stage mode(done by myself).

Othersides,sprite would be a very lot of work to make preset animation rather than fighting free.

I'd like short dialogue and simple animation, followed by free fighting.

I will try to face your AI.
Really excited when I saw your post. But I need separate time to reinstall the original LF2 and fight them.

The dialog will be in English? Or Chinise?
I'm a huge fan of the NIntendo storytelling style. So I prefer less text dialogues.
I wouldn't bother helping with some sprites.

[酱油君~]

I fully agree.
Im only against texts-dialogues. Not fun.

In my opinion, we can design sprite animations to make the plot more exciting and for all languages.

I don't know if you try the AI-Strengthen at my another thread,in fact it will be complained that it is too difficult to defeat.So I have edit another version of AI that fits to stage mode(done by myself).

Othersides,sprite would be a very lot of work to make preset animation rather than fighting free.

I'd like short dialogue and simple animation, followed by free fighting.

I will try to face your AI. 
Really excited when I saw your post. But I need separate time to reinstall the original LF2 and fight them.

The dialog will be in English? Or Chinise?
I'm a huge fan of the NIntendo storytelling style. So I prefer less text dialogues.
I wouldn't bother helping with some sprites.

Both of the language,and the Chinese version will be translated by me and Chinese story sprites will put in a RAR in story folder.