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Who is stronger: Julian or Firzen?
i must agree with someone else.... julian is stronger......
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(06-05-2009, 12:15 PM)Lf2-hacker Wrote:  we should (just for the critic ones)
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Mr.X Arrived
lol haha! Look like this:
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+ high armor
+ crazy mp recovery rate
+ spam attacks
+ mid-high-damage attacks
+ can hurt multiple enemies at once with no mp usage + greater range
+ ability to avoid enemies' attacks
+ chase-attack
+ can deal more damage on a greater range
- chase-attack is rather easy to avoid
- no chance of making additional damage by burning

+ spam attacks
+ high-damaging attacks, easy to instant-kill others
+ ratio-attack
+ chase-attack
+ hurt multiple enemies without mp usage
+ can "block" opponents (freezing) or deal additional damage (burning); with on_ground-objects as well as with a direct hit
- comparably low defense to Julian

Your job to evaluate each point.
Silverthorn / Blue Phoenix
~ Breaking LFE since 2008 ~

"Freeze, you're under vrest!" - Mark, probably.

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+ mid-high-damage attacks
WTF? you just talk about the special moves right ?
Because for example just two AAA+D^A+A would already kill a enemy (speaking about the normal punches)

btw. AH would kill both just with one attack :P

edit: LouisEX has the best agility (?) and best normal attacks like punch/jump attack (After Julien >_<)
... and he's just the coolest character xD LouisEX FTW!!
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he could kill them both (lex and ah)
lex could just run zig-zag and then dash attack at julian
and overhelming disaster spam?
he would just run away
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It goes both ways. Statistically, it would be like this:

Julian vs Firzen respectively
walking_speed 5.80 vs 6.00
walking_speedz 2.40 vs 2.57
running_speed 12.00 vs 13.00
running_speedz 1.50 vs 1.67
heavy_walking_speed 5.20 vs 4.80
heavy_walking_speedz 2.10 vs 2.40
heavy_running_speed 10.30 vs 10.00
heavy_running_speedz 1.30 vs 1.20
jump_height -17.299999 vs -17.000000
jump_distance 11.00 vs 13.00
jump_distancez 3.80 vs 3.75
dash_height -11.00 vs -10.00
dash_distance 19.00 vs 22.00
dash_distancez 5.00
rowing_height -2.00
rowing_distance 5.00 vs 6.00

  1. Has armor class 2 that still works against fire and ice
  2. Fast MP Regeneration
  3. Normal blocking ability, but enhanced by armor class.
  4. Big-sized - easier to hit.
  5. Able to handle well at close combat due to armor class AND strong + fast close-combat moves.
  6. Cannot roll - replaced by Mirror Image (Run + D + J...)
  1. Has no armor class
  2. Fast MP Regeneration
  3. Has an Ice Shield - can reflect/block most projectiles
  4. Small (normal) size - harder to hit.
  5. Has limited close combat ability.
  6. Has the ability to roll (Run + D) and pickup weapons whilst rolling

Now, let's compare the moves. (If you don't understand what I have here, open the data changer and compare their datas side by side)

Punch (A) - Initial wait 2 dvx 2, damage 35, bdefend 30, stun in 2, attack wait 1, longer reach than Firzen
Super - Initial wait 1+1+1+1, damage 60 bdefend 60 vrest 10 dvx 7 dvy 9 (move dvx 7) attack wait 1+4, end wait 2
Soul Punch (Run Attack) - Initial wait 4, damage 90 bdefend 60 vrest 8 dvx 25 dvy -9 (move dvx 15 at first frame) attack wait 0x6, end wait 4+2
Kick (Jump Attack) - Initial wait 3, damage 60 bdefend 60 vrest 10 dvx 13 dvy -4, attack wait 20
Kick (Dash Attack) - Initial wait 3, damage 80 bdefend 60 vrest 10 dvx 13 dvy -4

Light Throw - Wait 3, dvx: 24, dvy: -4, dvz: 3, Wait 3
Heavy Throw - Wait 3, dvx: 17 dvy: -4 dvz: 2 ,Wait 3 (carrying heavy takes 1+1 wait)

Uppercut (D^A) - 80 damage, bdefend 60, melee attack, instant-fall, can finish off with a kick (+A,same as Jump Attack)

Skull Blast (D>A +A...) - Limited homing ability (maximum moving dvx: approximately between 15-18?), 40 damage, bdefend 10, falls enemies in 4 skulls (3 to stun). MP: 10 per skull (without +A, shoots 5 skulls, can be stopped halfway by pressing D)
Soul Bomb (D>J) - MP: 125, Initial Wait 3+(0x8 ), moves at dvx: 18, Damage 75 bdefend 100 dvx: 30 (If explodes, does additional 75 damage bdefend 16 zwidth 37 dvx: -12 dvy: -18 ), End Wait 0+0+5. Soul Bomb upon explosion can hurt both friend and foe, can be easily destroyed by a Palm/Shockwave attack, Critical Arrow, Energy Disk, or consistent collision with enemies or constant bombarding of enemy projectiles.

Big Bang (D^J) - MP: 100, Initial Wait 1+0+1+0+1+0+1+0, Damage 135 bdefend 100 dvx: -10 dvy: -35 zwidth: 37 (Damage Wait: 3+1+0+1+0+0+1+0),End Wait 8+7+7+2+2

Mirror Image (DJA +J...) MP: 25, Causes enemy AI or homing projectiles to target image.

Punch (A) - Initial wait 1 dvx 1, damage 20, bdefend 16, stun in 3, attack wait 2, shorter reach than Firzen
Super - Initial wait 1+1+1 (move dvx 2+7+7), damage 80 bdefend 60 vrest 10 dvx 13 dvy -6 (move dvx 7) attack wait 2, end wait 2+2 (move dvx 7+0)
Run Attack - Same as Super
Kick (Jump Attack) - Initial wait 3, damage 30 bdefend 50 vrest 12 dvx 7, attack wait 3+6
Kick (Dash Attack) - Initial wait 3, damage 90 bdefend 60 vrest 12 dvx 13 dvy -4

Light Throw - Wait 1+1, dvx: 22, dvy: -4, dvz: 3, Wait 3
Heavy Throw - Wait 2, dvx: 15 dvy: -4 dvz: 2 ,Wait 7 (carrying heavy takes 2+1 wait)

Firzen Cannon (D>J [+D to stop]) - Initial Wait 1+1+1+1+1, End Wait 1, Moves at dvx 15
Initial: MP: 25, 135 Damage Bdefend 16 instant-fall dvx: 20 dvy: -10
Rapid: MP: 14, 26 Damage Bdefend 16 fall in 4 hits (3 stun) dvx:13 dvy: -8

Arctic Volcano (D^J) - MP: 250, Initial Wait 0+0+1+2+1+0+1+1+2, End Wait 20+2+2
Estimated Maximum Potential Damage against a single opponent @ ground zero when enemy does not block initially: 5 Overwhelming Disaster projectiles + 1 Icicle + 1 Explosion = 40x5 + 60 + 125 = 385
Initial Charging can block enemy attacks in front of him like an ordinary block (no ice shield effect).

Overwhelming Disaster (D^A +A...) - MP: 100, damage 40 bdefend 20 (both elements), fire causes groundfire bdefend 3 damage 20, ice causes enemy to freeze and receive extra damage when they fall to the ground if they are in mid-air but if freeze on the ground due to icicle instead of direct hit, damage 40 bdefend 16. Very effective at denying an area so it makes it harder for enemies to maneuver. It has excellent homing ability for as long as it stays in the air. Never jump when you encounter these missiles, either you dash away or you run (most effective).

Comparing Big Bang and Arctic Volcano:
1) Big Bang takes a shorter while to charge up and is less vulnerable initially (since you can't backstab Julian to void the move), but leaves Julian extremely vulnerable at the end. Arctic Volcano is more difficult to charge up but Firzen can recover more quickly from the move and enemies cannot reach him as easily since the icicles block the enemy's path.
2) Arctic Volcano costs more mana, but Big Bang costs less mana.
3) Big Bang does consistent damage and breaks defense 100% to everyone - either it hits or it misses. However, Arctic Volcano does inconsistent damage, since it totally depends on where the enemy was at and the number of enemies due to the fact that the Arctic Volcano has multiple opoints while Big Bang has just one.
4) Big Bang has a smaller hit radius in general, but Arctic Volcano hits a wider area.

As you can see, Julian is a tank who deals damage by single strikes and is better against multiple opponents. His armor is his main advantage, especially in close combat, but his size is also a liability as it makes him an easier target. Firzen is a more agile spell-caster who deals damage by continuous attack, his main advantage is his Overwhelming Disaster. Since he deals damage by constant bombarding, Firzen would not be good against multiple opponents since his damage would be stretched out very far, but he would prove to be extremely deadly in single combat. That's why Julian is made to have more opponents in Stage Mode than Firzen.

If Julian were to fight Firzen in 1v1 combat (assuming both are expert human players), it depends on the distance between Julian and Firzen and what moves they are performing at that range.

In close combat, Julian will easily taken down Firzen, because Julian has armor and strong close combat capability while Firzen has no close-range, fast, defense-breaking moves.

At long range, they'll be at a stalemale. Julian's soul bomb would easily detonate at long range, so Firzen Cannon will destroy it quickly before it reaches Firzen. The skull blast would have lost much of its homing ability (but still capable of harassing), so Firzen can easily avoid those skulls, use Firzen Cannon back at them, or even use his ice shield. Firzen Cannon would be easy to dodge at long range and would therefore be ineffective. Overwhelming Disaster has a long yet limited range. It can harass Julian and deny an area to make it harder for Julian to move around (especially if there is fire on the ground). A smart Julian player would use his Mirror Image to partially confuse the missiles, or he could use the Big Bang to take out the entire barrage. The overwhelming disaster is unlikely to deal damage in this scenario.

At mid-range, Firzen is most likely to win. The Skull Blast may be rather effective at mid-range, but it has limitations as it has limited homing capability: If Firzen gets behind and nearer towards Julian (and away from the edges of the map), the skull blast can never hit Firzen. If Firzen is close enough in the x-axis but very far away in terms of the z-axis, the skull blast is also unlikely to hit him, and even if it can, it would slow down considerably for long enough for Firzen to quickly move out of the way before it can fly towards him. If Firzen were infront of Julian, he could use both the Firzen Cannon and his ice shield to counter the skull blast. Julian's soul bomb takes some time to charge up and if Firzen is able to move fast enough, he can even be able to break Julian's armor and then deal significant damage at close combat (this is where the Firzen Cannon's initial projectile would come in handy when Julian is stunned to deal 135 damage in one shot). Otherwise, Firzen can attempt to dodge the soul bomb.

To defeat Julian at mid-range with Firzen, the key lies in the Overwhelming Disaster. Not necessarily by spamming, but timely usage. By using overwhelming disaster, you force Julian to either run away, use mirror image (but that's not failsafe), or use the Big Bang to destroy your missiles. However, in all of the options, you have the advantage. Firstly, you run faster than Julian and the Overwhelming Disaster has a long reach and chances are, he'd be hit by a couple, slowing him down. You can then dash in and punch him furiously, then when he is stunned (Dance of pain), finish with a Firzen Cannon for a straight 135 damage. Secondly, like the Soul Bomb, Big Bang takes time for Julian to charge up, and even better, he is very vulnerable AFTER the move whilst he is recovering. The same way: rush in and punch him like mad at close combat, then finish him with a Firzen Cannon. Avoid using Arctic Volcano since the chargeup time is too long, and if anywhere further than close-mid range, Julian can just shoot a soul bomb at you while you are still recovering.

Julian and Firzen are better in their own ways and is dependent on player preference, but overall they're even.

I personally prefer Julian.
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so that was the definitiv prove but
who won?
we could add a poll

(the winner of the hearts XD)
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Well I agree that Julien is the most powerful char but Firzen has the fire and freeze ball chase is totally unfair and can kill anyone when it hits but it's doge able.
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Oh my! You can't say x is stronger than y
because both have advantages and disadvantages.

You can only ask:

- who is better against multiple enemies?
- Who has the higher chance of winning in a julianVSfirzen (both human) battle?
- Who is the harder enemy?
No result, because it depends on your fighting style and the char you use.
Any other answer is wrong.
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(06-05-2009, 09:48 PM)KadajNoir Wrote:  Oh my! You can't say x is stronger than y
because both have advantages and disadvantages.

You can only ask:

- who is better against multiple enemies?
- Who has the higher chance of winning in a julianVSfirzen (both human) battle?
- Who is the harder enemy?
No result, because it depends on your fighting style and the char you use.
Any other answer is wrong.

Yeah that is mostly because different people are stronger but if both are the same type of fighters like mage vs mage that proofs that one of them is stronger but Juliean and Firzen aren't the same type.
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