sweet spot / critical hit

[YinYin]

i have just finished updating clides D^A
and i've managed to make a hit range far smaller than usually possible

this move will now either be a normal physical hit (when your opponent is within the yellow range on the gif)
or the standard energy hit (orange range)
or a critical hit (red range)
and otherwise of course no damage at all (green arrow / out of range)
the starting position of rudolf differs very little every time



if you dont understand it consider this:
the normal minimum range of an attack is (considering the itr has a width of 1) the width of the bdy being hit
because the 1 px itr can overlap with the bdy anywhere from its very right to its very left
you cannot go below that

now until i put the new data for clide online
how would you realize this?

[Alblaka]

Actually the idea sounds basic, but i dunno why it wasn't done in that extent already, neat work!
If i ever come to continue working on a LF2 character, i will probably add this... sounds like a valuable new gameplay concept...
"Yes, this char is overpowered, but only if you time every move CRITICAL!"

[Azriel]

theory (Click to View)

0 char1 spawn object1
1 object1 opoint kind 2 holding char2
2 object1 ik8 -> enemy

3a char1 normal attack -> orange zone

3b char1 has bdy (crit zone) that char2 ik8 (also small) <- char1
(takes 1 TU for itr to react iirc)
5b char1 ik8 on char2 to do crit attack

total 6 TU, slower than i hoped to get with a crit zone attack.

edit: well could save 1 or 2 TU by taking away the opoint on object1 and directly opointing the char, but there's the Com thing.

Azriel~

[YinYin]

you only have two hit zones am i getting that right?
a normal itr hit and a critical hit (for which you put the attacking character into a different attacking frame through itrk8 on a previously spawned object which had to align to him first (after aligning to the opponent, which is the crucial step to determine distance and thus make the hit range much smaller than the hit bdy))
took me a while to understand your writing

should work - great

lucky me i dont have to put clide into a different attacking frame because i have seperate hitting animated objects doing the 2 stronger hits - if they dont hit clide has to hit physically himself
mine is almost the same except i dont have to spawn a type 0 for my case

[Azriel]

you only have two hit zones am i getting that right?

correct, though this can be increased by having different ik8s on char2 bringing it back < on different frames, then char1 having multiple ik8 levels to go to different frames for the different strengths

mine is almost the same except i dont have to spawn a type 0 for my case

i'm guessing object1 ik8s back to char1 using different ik8s (for different strengths), so it's the object doing the damage rather than char1. that'll save frames for the attack, so that's better than the char solution



Azriel~

[mfc]

But doesn't itr/k8 require new special bodies? If you are creating a new char it is impossible to success it (sure you can add to the end of the readme a work list like bluna) but if ur going to add this ur new lf2 mod, with a little effort, it would be fantastic!

[Siegvar]

Theory (Click to View)

- Multiple itr tags in a single frame.
- First itr tag always takes precedence over subsequent ones (I think it does... if I know what I'm doing with frozen... unless it detects from left to right instead.)
- enough vrest or arest to ensure that after an itr tag takes effect.. the rest gets nullified by the delay. This works well enough with a quick attack... not so well on attacks that are meant to be multi-hit.. grinding.

- itr tags arranged left to right, side by side:
zone 1 - closest to clyde normal hit
zone 2 - to the right of 1 by 1px, crit lvl 1
zone 3 - to the right of 2 by 1px, crit lvl 2
zone 4 - right of 3 by 1px, crit lvl 1
zone 5 - right of 4 by 1px, normal hit

So... now.. when Rudolf's bdy is in contact with all 5 zones... which is when rudolf is closest to clyde...
zone 1 takes effect... normal physical hit... and others get negated by vrest/arest delay.
likewise.. as rudolf's relative distance from clyde is increased... eventually he'll be in a position where his bdy is overlapping with zones 2 to 5.. in which case.. zone 2 takes effect first... normal energy hit.. and the vrest/arest delay negates the other zones for that instant.
ditto for zones 3 4 and 5.

I used this method to calibrate frozen's shrafe initial pushback effect with respect to distance at which the shrafe connects... so that the second hits onward will connect nicely.

Also.. the margin for error can easily be tweaked by increasing each zones width...

The advantages my method uses is that multiple hit zones are possible.. more than just 2.. and its quite straightforward. No complex ik8 or opk2

EDIT: oh.. wait.. you want a method that doesn't just affect the damage and stuff.. but also displays a different effect?

EDIT2:
Hmm.. just hypothetically speaking.. but I could modify my original theory to work with the effect thing.
Instead of just regular itrs in clyde...

theory (Click to View)

0 Clyde opoints a t3 ball.
1 t3 ball has itr in zone 1 in the zonal arrangement explained in the first theory. (If hit, play. Else, continue.)
2 t3 ball opoints another t3 ball in zone 2 position with corresponding itr, then deletes itself. (if hit, play. Else continue.)
3 (Rinse and repeat as often as necessary.)

Another option, instead of opointing a new t3 ball each time..
0 Clyde opoints a t3 ball.
1 t3 ball has multiple itrs in zonal arrangement explained in the first theory. These itrs are k9 (John's shield). hit_d: in each frame determines the hit sequence to use after contact.

Faster, more straightforward. Only issue is the side effect of being able to reflect some t3 blasts and block the rest from using ik9

[Sheldeee]

one question from the dc noob i happen to be: how do u actually time an attack like this? (like charge up and when the opponent is at your favored distance, press release? (otherwise I can hardly imagine timing an attack at these small different lengths (the differences in your pic are like one millimeter...)

[YinYin]

i'm guessing object1 ik8s back to char1 using different ik8s (for different strengths), so it's the object doing the damage rather than char1. that'll save frames for the attack, so that's better than the char solution

well only if you dont need a different character frame and the included hit lag etc

But doesn't itr/k8 require new special bodies?

it does not - works perfectly fine on normal bdys

Theory (Click to View)

- Multiple itr tags in a single frame.
- First itr tag always takes precedence over subsequent ones (I think it does... if I know what I'm doing with frozen... unless it detects from left to right instead.)
- enough vrest or arest to ensure that after an itr tag takes effect.. the rest gets nullified by the delay. This works well enough with a quick attack... not so well on attacks that are meant to be multi-hit.. grinding.

- itr tags arranged left to right, side by side:
zone 1 - closest to clyde normal hit
zone 2 - to the right of 1 by 1px, crit lvl 1
zone 3 - to the right of 2 by 1px, crit lvl 2
zone 4 - right of 3 by 1px, crit lvl 1
zone 5 - right of 4 by 1px, normal hit

So... now.. when Rudolf's bdy is in contact with all 5 zones... which is when rudolf is closest to clyde...
zone 1 takes effect... normal physical hit... and others get negated by vrest/arest delay.
likewise.. as rudolf's relative distance from clyde is increased... eventually he'll be in a position where his bdy is overlapping with zones 2 to 5.. in which case.. zone 2 takes effect first... normal energy hit.. and the vrest/arest delay negates the other zones for that instant.
ditto for zones 3 4 and 5.

I used this method to calibrate frozen's shrafe initial pushback effect with respect to distance at which the shrafe connects... so that the second hits onward will connect nicely.

Also.. the margin for error can easily be tweaked by increasing each zones width...

proof you aren't as rusted as you may think

your method is great
i have initially thought of doing it that way too
but at some point my mind told me that it wouldnt work because the final critical itr is still 1px (which does normally get the range of the attacked bdy)
but the weaker itrs acting beforehand effectively prohibit that
why havent i at least tried it ... (affinity works that way too after all)
oh well

might rework mine with this to reduce the chance of glitches

btw i'm using itr kind 9 for the actual hit (and showing the animation) aswell - i see no problem with reflecting blasts there

one question from the dc noob i happen to be: how do u actually time an attack like this? (like charge up and when the opponent is at your favored distance, press release? (otherwise I can hardly imagine timing an attack at these small different lengths (the differences in your pic are like one millimeter...)

that millimeter can go down to exactly one pixel
youve got several options (as a player for clides move):

• sheer luck
  
• dance of pain - adjust your position - attack
  
• super awesome 1337 skill (critcal hitting whenever you perform the move)
  

and as a dcer you can of course make it easier for the player with something like this for example

but since the critical hit on clide is so overpowered it should not get any easier to pull it off - would defeat the point of it

[LSwarley]

hmm... why do i think that if this was already invented nobody would rlly know about it and most ppl go with sheer luck, like it was with DCing? =p
nice work x.x as a n00b in DCing (just got started!) i dont understand a word =p (still dunno all the kinds/states/effects and have to look them up on the mainsite).

E: offtopic: yay my 100th post