[C] Walker - 2.08

[bashscrazy]

Its intended for a wall-bounce feature, but it doesn't work very consistently at the moment.

Oh really? well that makes sense and it's also cool!

[支倉凍砂]

I think YinYin mentioned this previously in this thread. If you use any D (direction) A move, pressing J will cause you to do D (direction) J as soon as your character is allowed to do so. Its an engine-related issue, though not always a bad thing.

Yeah, I know you can omit the D for a J-special after an A-special in the air, but why does it block me from doing it at all?
Shouldn't D↑AD↑J still return D↑J? o.o

I think its better to take it out. I found a nasty infinite with it because you can catch the opponent again in mid-air and opponents cannot flip if they are thrown like that for some reason.
(AAA, grab, D^J, (wait until Walker lands), >J+DvA, (wait until Walker lands), >J+DvA...)

If it is a catch-only move it couldn't be used as an infinite, also angle, distance and the non-flippable nature of it could be adjusted if needed.

Probably not necessary to change distance. Its elegant and simple as it is.

Wouldn't it be good to have the option if any character use their D→A against you to still be able to counter it?

If you do make his run D like Julian's, would appreciate if it functions just like a normal roll except with an illusion, but I like normal roll as it is.

So you want to him to roll normally, just leave an illusion of him behind?

the readme file as weird characters between the AJD letters so hard to tell

You will probably need install support for East Asian Languages from your control panel to properly view full-width arrow symbols. Your computer can probably handle the extra 250mb needed. ; )

And by the way, thanks for trying Walker out.

[STM1993]

Yeah, I know you can omit the D for a J-special after an A-special in the air, but why does it block me from doing it at all?
Shouldn't D↑AD↑J still return D↑J? o.o

If you pressed D^A one by one, somehow D^A is used but the A isn't recorded, so if you press J it'd become D^J. If you press A again, it somehow remembers you've already done D^A so it becomes (D^A) (A). If you press D the game records it as D^D, which cancels the 3 keys. So if you press D^A D^J, the game remembers the input to be (D^D) (^J). You have to do it D^A D D^J if you insist on using the full input.

If you pressed D^A all keys at once, this bug never happens.

Probably not necessary to change distance. Its elegant and simple as it is.

Wouldn't it be good to have the option if any character use their D→A against you to still be able to counter it?

You're right, I forgot about projectiles.

If you do make his run D like Julian's, would appreciate if it functions just like a normal roll except with an illusion, but I like normal roll as it is.

So you want to him to roll normally, just leave an illusion of him behind?

Actually, I thought it could be: Leave an illusion of him using stop_run and then standing/defending or using run attack, while Walker moves just like rolling(can pick up items, no z-axis) except he is invisible. But then now I realize this won't be a very good distraction against human players because they can still see the name... and AI is hard to fool since they can still track you moving.

I guess I like the normal LF2 rolling too much

[支倉凍砂]

If you press D the game records it as D^D, which cancels the 3 keys.

Seriously... I've been playing this game for like 10 years and I did not know that D direction D canceled your input. Seriously.
Well, what do you know.

Actually, I thought it could be: Leave an illusion of him using stop_run and then standing/defending or using run attack, while Walker moves just like rolling(can pick up items, no z-axis) except he is invisible. But then now I realize this won't be a very good distraction against human players because they can still see the name... and AI is hard to fool since they can still track you moving.

I get fooled all the time by Julian, it's not like I focus my eyes on the player name when I play.
It would probably work against computers while running away since the illusion is also a character object.
I'll see if I can do something interesting with it, otherwise I'll just leave it as it is.


I just some awesome ideas for Walker today this morning, and I should probably have the time to implement them tonight!
Hopefully I can have a patch in 7 hours or so.

[AmadisLFE]

The Character is looking cool, I will say, Gad is of course a really good spriter, the moves are really good too, I am really waiting to see the full version. (Probably when its fully done)

[支倉凍砂]

It took longer time than I had expected to implement the changes I had planned, and I didn't get two things to work at all... so I give you my work-in-progress: https://www.dropbox.com/s/u42ued0im0muxi....08%5D.rar

I tried to make Mirage Guard using that catching ball trick, but as I have never worked with self-catching balls before... I don't know what I'm doing wrong, help appreciated.

Replaced Mirage Dash with Mirage Punch, still available in the air and this time around I think the illusions are a bit more useful than last time.

Tried a new effect for Spectre Kick, and some other sprite changes.

That Jack Kick Throw is replaced with a more Walker-generic throw, as I don't have any sprites to play with for the time being. Command changed to down instead of up.

Same thing with his normal catch, I played around with YinYin's double input method and now you can do the counter throw by pressing A+J or A+D during a normal catch. I'm hoping to change this into something else in the future.

By the way, I'm testing how it is with having Spooky Guard at D+J+A instead, as it is kind of a hybrid... It's a catching move like D→J and JD↓J but it's also a counterattack like (the future) D↓A...


I think that's about it for now.

[STM1993]

I tried to make Mirage Guard using that catching ball trick, but as I have never worked with self-catching balls before... I don't know what I'm doing wrong, help appreciated.

Add the following cpoint into Walker's frame 307:

DC-Code: cpoint: kind: 2 x: 42 y: 39 fronthurtact: 310 backhurtact: 131 cpoint_end:

Now Walker will be properly caught by the ball, although my coordinates are off so he'd be pushed back and in mid-air like being caught by a normal grab.
You should also take out the cpoint in the ball's frame 110 and change the state to 3005 the ball can be properly removed from the game and to make sure this is invisible. The first ball frame 100 can also use a different state than 18 so there'd be no smoke, 3005 should also work so the shadow is also hidden.

More comments to come, testing character in stage mode.

EDIT:

Replaced Mirage Dash with Mirage Punch, still available in the air and this time around I think the illusions are a bit more useful than last time.

Actually the illusion still isn't that useful on testing in stage 3. This is because both the character and the illusion are on the same z-axis, so even if they attacked the illusion, chances are they'd also be attacking you. I am aware that you can move on the z-axis while backing away, but I found that the z-axis movement is insufficient to ensure that the character can dodge and he'd always be able to hit the opponent even if the opponent stood still.

Tried a new effect for Spectre Kick, and some other sprite changes.

Same thing with his normal catch, I played around with YinYin's double input method and now you can do the counter throw by pressing A+J or A+D during a normal catch. I'm hoping to change this into something else in the future.

I like these changes.

That Jack Kick Throw is replaced with a more Walker-generic throw, as I don't have any sprites to play with for the time being. Command changed to down instead of up.

Cool. Although I should note an inconsistency where you can use the DvA input on dash or just after uppercut to execute the throw whereas you can't use JDvA.

By the way, I'm testing how it is with having Spooky Guard at D+J+A instead, as it is kind of a hybrid... It's a catching move like D→J and JD↓J but it's also a counterattack like (the future) D↓A...

I think DJA is a bit awkward considering that you can press A again to execute the back teleport. DvJ will be better.


I think Walker could use better crowd control. Weird that bandits/hunters can survive >>JA, might want to raise the damage to exactly 50. Change his super and >>A to vrest 10 - he tends to hit some other enemy instead of the intended enemy.

[支倉凍砂]

Thank you for your thorough testing. : D

Actually the illusion still isn't that useful on testing in stage 3. This is because both the character and the illusion are on the same z-axis, so even if they attacked the illusion, chances are they'd also be attacking you. I am aware that you can move on the z-axis while backing away, but I found that the z-axis movement is insufficient to ensure that the character can dodge and he'd always be able to hit the opponent even if the opponent stood still.

My thought was that the punch would win against the opponents other attacks, but maybe that's not the case?
You want me to greatly increase the z-movement or just scrap the move as whole?
How do you like it in the air?

Although I should note an inconsistency where you can use the DvA input on dash or just after uppercut to execute the throw whereas you can't use JDvA.

Ah, I knew I shouldn't just have used the Replace All.

I think DJA is a bit awkward considering that you can press A again to execute the back teleport. DvJ will be better.

The backward teleport is gone right? The teleport is only going to be the D↓A-move.

I think Walker could use better crowd control. Weird that bandits/hunters can survive >>JA, might want to raise the damage to exactly 50. Change his super and >>A to vrest 10 - he tends to hit some other enemy instead of the intended enemy.

Roger that.
Have you tried out Walker 1.03? He had one rather strong crowd control counterattack, would that maybe be interesting again?

By the way, as does Phantom Dash work at all against other characters projectiles as intended?

[STM1993]

Walker has a lot of trouble dealing with Mark. Mark has the highest tendency to kick out of grabs(no D>J), uses his D>A punch when the enemy is near even on the z-axis(screws up timing) and Mark's D>J has priority over almost all of Walker's moves save DJA(Mark's itr is further in front and bdy is further behind).

My thought was that the punch would win against the opponents other attacks, but maybe that's not the case?
You want me to greatly increase the z-movement or just scrap the move as whole?
How do you like it in the air?

Nope, its not as useful as D>J to clearing out groups for melee. However, it might come in handy against projectiles with some refinements. Currently it has some issues: tend to get shot/punched when moving backwards especially by Hunter arrows, tend to get burnt when countering Sorcerer fireballs.

Maybe make his back movement more like a teleport and invincibility until he re-appears behind. If need be, add itr effect 4 to any vulnerable frames. Then he punches forward, I suggest a speed/distance and pushing power more similar to Bat's D>J. Maybe make uppercut able to chain into it. Try z-axis on both his forward and backward movement.

The backward teleport is gone right? The teleport is only going to be the D↓A-move.

Nope, still there. Not too useful in stage mode either.
I think the current DJA should be DvA while the new DvA should be DvJ - the counter-throw is more basic than the upcoming new move.

I think Walker could use better crowd control. Weird that bandits/hunters can survive >>JA, might want to raise the damage to exactly 50. Change his super and >>A to vrest 10 - he tends to hit some other enemy instead of the intended enemy.

Roger that.
Have you tried out Walker 1.03? He had one rather strong crowd control counterattack, would that maybe be interesting again?

Just downloaded and tried, I believe you're referring to his DvA grab where he will hold the opponent and charge with him like a shield? I like it, it can be a new move and should be available on normal grabbing. Should add in A to cancel by throwing though.

Oh, and vrest on jump attack too. It would also be nice to have one move useable on roll, currently feels like he can't do anything to attack out of rolling unlike all the other default hero characters, it will help his ability to deal with crowds and deal with Mark significantly.

By the way, as does Phantom Dash work at all against other characters projectiles as intended?

D>J is so far the most useful move in Walker's arsenal for separating or knocking out a group though it has low damage. Against projectiles, its great if you can grab someone infront before the projectiles reach along with z-axis use, but if there are already a bunch of projectiles coming there's not much you can do. Kind of annoying that you may sometimes grab an enemy from behind and end up throwing behind instead of in front.