Originals - new moves

[Gespenst]

Give Louis a laser beam or move that gives him a shield that follows him. His gem mounted in armour.

[Ariel]

was just working on this sketch before you replied ^_^


first attack is laser thing for 1 hit, not like bats that continue
second is running fast for some distance, enemy that get him are knocked away and fall

[Memento]

maybe we should put all effort on originals for now(just see how that woddy came out pretty fast)
and than each member can go and work on the char they want (*hint* joho, werewolf)

I think its better if you and Arcane would focus on the general (3 forms of a rather difficult concept is a lot of work) and after that, there's also the main villain.. Don't forget that you'll be gone in some months and we might not be able to do these sprites without you Ariel.

As for Louis:

Strenghts:
- Armor
- High jump
- Strong run attack
- Strong dash attack
- Can do multiple dashes while holding a weapon

Weaknesses:
- Speed (punching, running, special moves). All his moves are easy to dodge, which basically means he can only go for the head-on approach, in which he's inferior to all others. Besides, his moves are easy to counter (except D^J, but its slow enough to dodge if you're skilled)
- He has no decent counter attacks
In other words, face him head on and you'll win (that's why he loses so often )

I think he needs:
1) a better counter attack (still slow, but with added defending state maybe) OR a special weapon so he can attack from a longer distance (Louis with a weapon can be rather dangerous ;-))
2) an AoE attack

- Counter idea: charged punch (slow, but he can have a defensive state in the charging frames and the punch deals good damage). I'm sure this would fit nicely for Louis. Some green charging effect and a long swing for maximum input would do the trick.
- Weapon idea:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Something like this but smaller. He shouldn't be swinging it, he should go for stabbing unless used in jump attack and dash attack. I think it should be either a sword or no weapon at all (no weapon has my preference, but I'm mentioning it because it would help balancing Louis out)
-> This eliminates the problem that Louis has no choice but going head-on and almost always loses this
- AoE idea: I'm blank.

Edit: his run attack and dash attack are usually referred to as 'thunder punch'. How about a shockwave move as AoE attack?



As for the other attacks:

- Laser beam: I personally don't like the idea for this character. I think it doesn't suit his look and moveset, especially as he's a generally slow character.
- Shoulder bash: this could be a good move for Louis. I still have some objections however: Louis already has his flying kick move, which does basically the same thing, which is enough reason for me to be against it. Apart from this, Mark has about the same move..
- Shield that follows him: I'm not sure if I like the idea or not, but this might work for Louis in both terms of gameplay and character style.

Please share your opinions on the suggested moves for Louis (and eventually bring in new ones)

[Jahvansi]

- Laser beam: I personally don't like the idea for this character. I think it doesn't suit his look and moveset, especially as he's a generally slow character.

But isnt that also one of his problems? A fast move like that laser beam, transmitting the energy out of the gem, could make him more viable maybe. I like the idea

- Shoulder bash: this could be a good move for Louis. I still have some objections however: Louis already has his flying kick move, which does basically the same thing, which is enough reason for me to be against it. Apart from this, Mark has about the same move..

Totally aggre, flying kick is the exact same thing imo.

- Shield that follows him: I'm not sure if I like the idea or not, but this might work for Louis in both terms of gameplay and character style.

also have no real opinion on that attack


Apart from that, I cleaned the sprites for woody's nut punch, they are on dropbox
btw why u took away the first frame memento?^^


gif is too slow, it should be way faster ingame

[YinYin]

Weaknesses:
- Speed (punching, running, special moves). All his moves are easy to dodge, which basically means he can only go for the head-on approach, in which he's inferior to all others. Besides, his moves are easy to counter (except D^J, but its slow enough to dodge if you're skilled)
- He has no decent counter attacks
In other words, face him head on and you'll win (that's why he loses so often )

- has no run/dash attack on low mp

I'd suggest you try to improve what he has instead of making up new moves - they won't fix his current problems and turn the updates into the only goto options.

Suggestion: Louis armor is not active in state: 3 (all his attacks) - try making his armor active in as many frames as possible and test how that improves him for a while.
Do the same with faster punches.
Do the same with farther reaching punches.
Maybe also try giving him low mp versions for run and dash attack.
He might just turn into a beast more quickly than you'd imagine.

[Memento]

Weaknesses:
- Speed (punching, running, special moves). All his moves are easy to dodge, which basically means he can only go for the head-on approach, in which he's inferior to all others. Besides, his moves are easy to counter (except D^J, but its slow enough to dodge if you're skilled)
- He has no decent counter attacks
In other words, face him head on and you'll win (that's why he loses so often )

- has no run/dash attack on low mp

I'd suggest you try to improve what he has instead of making up new moves - they won't fix his current problems and turn the updates into the only goto options.

Suggestion: Louis armor is not active in state: 3 (all his attacks) - try making his armor active in as many frames as possible and test how that improves him for a while.
Do the same with faster punches.
Do the same with farther reaching punches.
Maybe also try giving him low mp versions for run and dash attack.
He might just turn into a beast more quickly than you'd imagine.

How do you do this? His armor is in the exe, right? We have no hex editors (yet)

If the above is possible, I think we should do this and still make 1 new attack (that wouldn't be his only go-to option then)

[YinYin]

Just change all his state: 3 (and possibly others) to a state where the armor works. afaik that should work.

Side effect may be that AI won't defend against his attacks anymore - but that'll just be another superficial plus helping him out on that level.

[Memento]

Just change all his state: 3 (and possibly others) to a state where the armor works. afaik that should work.

Side effect may be that AI won't defend against his attacks anymore - but that'll just be another superficial plus helping him out on that level.

Which would disturb the gameplay. It might give him an advantage against other coms, but this doesn't sound like a solid solution to me. I'd rather keep the original armor then and give him a new edge by adding 1-2 moves (2 if we don't want him to rely on just 1 tactic).

I was thinking of giving him 2 new approaches:
- the charged punch can be used as a counter attack, which makes that he can avoid being the underdog in one-vs-one.
- If we were to make an AoE attack like the shock wave and give it a fall of 60, we have set the right environment for a follow-up move (D^J, D>J, catching).

If you guys want to use the laser beam attack, please eleborate it some more. I'm not convinced about it yet, also because I doubt its the attack that would give him a new advantage over some others. So how would it give Louis the advantage he needs?
Apart from this: where would the laser beam be shot from?

edit: edited your cleaned version of Woody's move a little bit, Arcane. Added some minor arm and leg movement in the last 3 sprites.

as for why I didn't include the first frame in the sprites: when you press the input DJA, you'll always start from the defending frame, which uses the exact same sprite

[Rhino.Freak]

For starters, I think increasing Louis's speed is a go from me.
Why? Well he is training for some time and I think he should be more 'used to' towards his armor then.. Just increment by little, not much.

About the laser beam attack, that would be a plus Imo, doesn't feel his style exactly, but how about we shape that laser beam like an extended arm punch thingy? That would at least look unique, and suit his physical offense style more or less.


And I don't think we should feel that he's THAT underpowered, coz he does have a transformation unlike other fighters. :/

[Memento]

I uploaded a very basic improved louis.dat to dropbox. I basically improved his overall speed. Specifically:
- running 9 -> 9,7;
- punching 8TU -> 7TU;
- took 1TU off his first D>J frame.

I gave his D^J a state: 4 (jumping state) so his armor will work as if he's not attacking, and took off 1TU. This way, D^J becomes a better counter.

(TU=time unit)


Nobody responded to the moves I suggested: the charged punch as a counter and the shockwave move as an AoE attack. I suppose that is because the options aren't popular enough, so lets just forget about those options.

What we have to do now:
- Discuss the effect of the laser move and make a template for the laser move. After we have seen the template, decide if we're going to use this move
- Decide: will he get 2 diffirent run attacks and dash attacks (one with and one without MP) or shall we leave it the way it is?


PS I semi-forgot about an important strenght of Louis: he is able to jump and dash very high in general, which makes him special. We could also consider a move performed from the sky if you guys have a good idea.