RaMafia (round 1 - end)

[A-Man]

Then you are the only one to blame for making such stupid moves, making the Mafia a favour for attracting all the attention towards yourself. What need is there to fake a PM and make it look so convincing for so long? And now that you realized your PM was discredited and has little influence, you got afraid and decided not only to admit it was a fake, before someone else did, as also try to put all the blame on Luti.

I am convicting Luti for reasons I believe to be viable, and some which has to do with his attitude and complete denial of sending the PM even though it shouldn't harm his case. You're free to vote to lynch me if you think what I did convinces you I'm a mafia.

You can't really blame me for 'getting caught' before making it clear my PM was a fake, since you literally noticed it was fake within 14 minutes after I posted it. Way before I had a chance to see more people's reactions.

Oh, yes I can. I am sorry, I am fast and very nitty picky. I am sure every law out there does stress more on the punishment for those who were caught without admitting.

So first you attack Rhino with forgery, then you attack me as soon as you noticed something was off, and now you attack Luti. I just received a "threat" PM from mfc, I'm not even going to bother posting the evidence, because:

1. Screenshots of PM's are no real evidence, as we all know they can be forged (apparently you didn't?);
2. mfc PM might just be a troll attempt, maybe to see how I react to it, or for him just to have fun;
3. You can't assume someone is Mafia for sending a "threat" PM. Why would a Mafia endanger himself that way in the first place?

That's all there is to my plan. Taking notice of those who side me. As for why put myself in danger, its more fun to play that way.

I'm sorry A-Man, but even if you are innocent, you are not helping the town, like, at all. So u gtg. :P

As far as I am concerned, the lynching phase is not done yet, and I am playing this till my last breath.

[Ramond]

Current status on Day 1 Lynch:

A-Man 4 (mfc, MangaD, STM, Rhino.Freak)
LutiChris 1 (A-Man)
MangaD 1 (pf)
Amadis 1 (MnM)

Not voted: Amadis, Apocalipsis, Hellblazer, Luti, empirefantasy

Wow, A-Man seems to be a likely victim for this day. The lynch will be over once a person has at least 7 votes (and I'm here to update it) or if a certain deadline is met. (Will set it for Friday January 8th, 10 PM GMT+0. Deadline may be changed based on how the discussion goes on.)

Player List:
1. A-Man
2. Rhino
3. prince
4. STM
5. Hellblazer
6. MnM
7. Luti
8. MangaD
9. mfc
10. Amadis
11. Jernemies - Thug
12. Apocalipsis
13. empirefantasy (Mayor)

Citizen to Mafia ratio: 9:3

Remaining Roles:
-3 Mafia
-1 Thug
-1 Sheriff
-1 Doctor
-6 Citizens

Specific Rulesets (Click to View)

Private discussion between players outside of the thread is allowed.
Sending copies, screenshots or quotes of any sensitive information provided by me (Ramond) is forbidden in any way.
Voting for no-kill is allowed.
Night talk is allowed.
Ghost talk is allowed, but under the condition that no information that was gained outside of the public posts may be used in any way, especially not as a PM to other players.

If any of the above rules are broken, the opposite fraction of the rulebreaker wins the game immediately, so I will also ask players to be fair and report to me if somebody breaks a rule. That hopefully ensures nobody will even try to cheat.

Ace Attorney popups for use in the discussion (Click to View)

[mfc]

and I am playing this till my last breath.

Oh my, I am almost going to feel sorry for you ;(
AS IF I WOULD HAHAHA
die in vain mr. mafia

[A-Man]

Will a miracle happen? XD

[Apocalipsis]

I had to read through a lot of pages. And then backtrack to the beginning of the round...

Warning, long post incoming!

I'm just gonna put some quotes with comments in these spoilers. A lot of stuff that I used to decide who to vote for.

Regarding A-MAN, Rhino, Luti and MangaD (Click to View)

Nice editing Lutichris! Though yes I can make something similar too in like 10 minutes in Paint, just like MangaD just now did :P

[...]

Now the question arises, why would someone want to false accuse someone? Lutichris and A-man seems to have a solid plan going on. MangaD couldn't control himself either.

You guys are a funny bunch.

It's pretty clear Lutichris is mafia (along with A-man probably), he PM-ed A-MAN to set me (or could have been anyone) up to do this. He needs to be lynched.

[...]

With recent information, this Rhino's post makes much more sense now.

[...]

Rhino.Freak:
Sent me a threatening PM. He could've just admitted it was a joke PM, but he made a mistake and started fighting back, framing Luti out of the blue again (pattern?). It becomes clear even before that when Rhino.Freak told Luti to "not be ridiculous" that there is something more to it. It's as if Rhino knows something we don't, OR as if he's a target of some group Rhino belongs to? I know one thing for certain, Rhino and LutiChris ARE NOT of the same group.

[...]

Anyways, whaat do we have here....hmmm i seee youuu... *badumtssss*! Okay Luti, gg wp.. you done fo' good. I bet he IS a mafia already. Just notice that whenever we get him over the trial court, he directly or indirectly tries to escape the sight and immediately brings up other guys' accusations. (Currently this PM ordeal.) No clear answer in my eyes yet.

I don't know, I have since long known this thing about Luti. He just likes to goof around. Though he might be a Mafia.. who knows?. Don't get swayed by others.

[...]

Edit: I really feel I am their next target. I need a doctor 0_0

Explicitly lies about Rhino sending the PM. Claims that he (Rhino) made a mistake when defending himself.
Then, he says that he is certain that "Rhino and LutiChris ARE NOT of the same group". Later, he slightly defends Luti because he's been known to goof around.

The last thing... is definitely suspicious to me. Those kind of messages could be Doctor-bait, to carry him away from real targets.

But again, who knows this can be another trick, we can't be too gullible. :p

Of course, I understand. I might be a mafia too tricking you all somehow into this. I have a feeling I am going to die next round lol.

[...]

Another possible Doctor-bait.

@A-Man
I do like to goof off. if you count a speech an additional 8-something words of gloating then sure i guess? anyways don't defend me, i'm a big boy now! I can take care of myself. Are you trying to make it seem like we're cool buddies? At this point i don't know who sent what or if this whole thing A-Man concocted was even legitimate. I'd understand if anybody wants to suspect all 3 of us because we were goofing off for a couple of pages ...

[...]

The last sentence is something I didn't consider, until now. Sounds too risky, though.

[...]

Also, I did not send you any pm and you know it, but say even if I did.. what does that prove? How does that pm account for anything at all eventhough it's fake lol.

The facts here are: I was accused for nothing.

After A-MAN's plotwist, we know that Rhino is telling the truth again here.

[...]

I like how you immediately noticed the PM was fake. It's as if you knew that Rhino wouldn't PM me such thing in the first place. Which is odd, considering "he PM'ed you" something of the sort, it would be expected of you not to try to find flaws in my screenshot and take it as a reinforcement to your screenshot...

[...]

I thought about this at that time. But my idea was that A-MAN and Rhino were working together to trick the Thug into taking the bullet. When I PMed A-MAN to know if that was the case, he told me to do what I think is right.

@^: What has convinced you I am a mafia?
Rhino.Freak (updated in next page) of course, for the threatening PM.

Also, it's important that we all stay focused on one person so that we don't lose a round lynching no one like it happened in last games. For citizens especially, whom are already in a disadvantage, it gets worse if no one is lynched.

While I agree about no-killing being kind of useless, I'm against full-fledged bandwagon (not sure if that's what you meant with "it's important that we all stay focused on one person").

I'll start from here,

@^: What has convinced you I am a mafia?
Rhino.Freak of course, for the threatening PM.

The point worth discussing is that, I never accused A-man to be a mafia yet, I only accused Lutichris.

A-man looks too stressed on the point to lynch / target / whatever me. Does he really think I'm a mafia even if I did send the message? I don't think it makes sense.
What makes sense is that he seems a bit too persistent on getting me lynched... as if he is assigned to this job. We also see Luti and A-man sort of teaming up in a previous few pages indirectly.
I could be wrong about involvement of Luti in all this but I did not expect the reaction he gave when I accused him, which I think looked suspicious.
Regardless of this, A-man's erratic behaviour of first faking (atleast we both know it) a PM (for which he nicely set up an atmosphere first) and then trying to find faults in MangaD's screenshot almost gives it away.

For the following reasons I vote for A-man.

This was before A-MAN's revelation.

[...]

Whether I am teaming up with Luti or not is something you can't prove, or even suggest. Why would Luti forge a PM for me? And I say all I told about Luti not teaming up with me is right. You sent me a message, and its my only lead to a mafia, so I am simply following it.

[...]

Why couldn't he suggest it? Also, more lies.

All I have said so far is truth (or not intentional lies or false accusations), APART FROM ONE THING. As prince freeza have deduced, Rhino did NOT send the PM. The whole idea was just messing with Rhino. As Rhino concluded, the PM was forged by the help of a skilled asset. However, a threatening PM was really sent to me. With the same content of the fabricated piece. It was sent by none other than, the master mind of all evil, LutiChris. His evil intent was obvious, from the second I felt he mistook me for a thug. In addition to the support he gave me, and the applauds I received from him to my inbox, Luti's morbid intents seem to have manifested themselves in his posts multiple times:

[...]

Let me quote myself from before:

I know one thing for certain, Rhino and LutiChris ARE NOT of the same group.

If you trust me, then you can trust Rhino.Freaky is definitely not a mafia. A citizen, or a thug at most.

[...]

This changed everything. But I don't get it, how do you know for sure that Rhino is not mafia? I mean, you selected Rhino (randomly?) to falsely accuse him of sending a threat PM... how does that make him, for sure, innocent?

[...]

Even though you pulled that list from your a** (Déjà vu), I have to give credit to your voting. @empirefantasy just got 4 votes to be Mayor. How can someone get trusted that much in the 1st day when the town is all divided? My guess is that he is Mafia and got voted by the other Mafia. HOWEVER, he could not be Mafia and have been voted by the real Mafia as a way to put suspicions on him. For this reason, I have more reasons to lynch someone that voted on him than him himself.

[...]

That is bs. Last game guess who suggested the no-lynch? The cop. Guess who found a Mafia on the next night? The cop. The only reason he got killed on that night is because his reasoning during the day was too much cop-sided. I could smell his cop uniform from miles away.

[...]

APART FROM ONE THING. As prince freeza have deduced, Rhino did NOT send the PM.

Wow, you took so long to admit it. So, you suspect me for forging a PM with the intention of discrediting yours, which I did not make clear right away just to see your reactions, but even before you reacted I had already hinted it was a fake. And now I guess you expect me to not suspect you, who forged a PM against a random member and kept it as a lie for a whole day phase?

And now you blame Luti, who you insist to have helped you. "If I'm going down you're going down with me"
I wonder how you and Luti even got in contact in the first place... Oh wait, Luti said:

As stated before i did not send out pm's to anybody. and i especially do not want to this early in the game.

Voting A-Man.

About empirefantasy getting 4 votes, some players said they voted for him so the Mayor election would finally end. I was going to do something like that eventually, just to go on with the game.

Was I the Cop on that game? Sounds familiar xD

Pretty much I agree with everything you said about the PM thingy. Except I don't trust Luti that much, either.

[...]

I am also inclined to believe one of them is Mafia (and much more inclined to A-Man right now). So lynching one of them is a way to find out which one is Mafia and which one is not, right?

And a great way to screw up the civilians chances if these 2 turn out to be citizens.

[...]

Any mistake is a great way to screw up civilians chances. We cannot know for sure that we won't make a mistake. We should aim to get clues, even while we make those mistakes.

I will not be lynching as we need more information from the cop before doing anything.
lynching will only make us lose citizens which will help mafia members. its very unlikely for us to hit a mafia members this early in the game.

At this point anymore accusations about the pm message, i'm just going to ignore. Any cop who is willing can check on my status but that would be a waste of their time.

I don't get it, why don't you accuse A-MAN? He claims you threatened him o.o

Also, it's not very wise to ask the sheriff to show himself so soon...

[...]

And a great way to screw up the civilians chances if these 2 turn out to be citizens.

Then you are the only one to blame for making such stupid moves, making the Mafia a favour for attracting all the attention towards yourself. What need is there to fake a PM and make it look so convincing for so long? And now that you realized your PM was discredited and has little influence, you got afraid and decided not only to admit it was a fake, before someone else did, as also try to put all the blame on Luti.

You can't really blame me for 'getting caught' before making it clear my PM was a fake, since you literally noticed it was fake within 14 minutes after I posted it. Way before I had a chance to see more people's reactions.

So first you attack Rhino with forgery, then you attack me as soon as you noticed something was off, and now you attack Luti. I just received a "threat" PM from mfc, I'm not even going to bother posting the evidence, because:

[...]

I'm sorry A-Man, but even if you are innocent, you are not helping the town, like, at all. So u gtg. :P

True. I have yet to see what good came out of the PM faking, apart from confusion.

[...]

I am convicting Luti for reasons I believe to be viable, and some which has to do with his attitude and complete denial of sending the PM even though it shouldn't harm his case. You're free to vote to lynch me if you think what I did convinces you I'm a mafia.

[...]

That's all there is to my plan. Taking notice of those who side me. As for why put myself in danger, its more fun to play that way.

[...]

I wonder if you were talking about me, or about you, back then:

A person's motive in this game is more likely to not only win this, but to play most by not putting himself in danger. But it's still no fun to just watch. So "playing safely" is what most will play like. If you wanted to play safe, you probably would've wrote "the citizens" or something like that.

What you did is not entirely logical for survival, but something a "daring mafia" would do. "A daring sheriff" might do that too, but there is only 1 sheriff in the entire game so its more risky.

Regarding Amadis (Click to View)

Since amadis is inactive I say we better lynch him. I vote for Amadis to be lynched

I wouldn't do that for now. Amadis was probably away for the whole first night, but it ended really quickly. Maybe I'm wrong, but I would expect Ramond to wait some time for special roles' PMs. That's why I see him as a citizen, for now.

[...]

(amadis)
could be checking this topic daily without logging in for all we know, but i'm still not wasting my vote on lynching him, though he will be dealt with later esp if he keep being inactive.

[...]

Quoted for truth.

Regarding mfc (Click to View)

My suspects list:
-Apocalipsis
-MangaD
-Rhino.Freak

Suspects
1) A-Man
2) Rhino-Freak
3) HellBlazer

Nobody suspects a thing.

>Send everyone threat pms
>Nobody gives a s**t

:(

You have my vote for the Most Random Player award xD

I just can't ignore what happened with the threat PM and just vote randomly. I am convinced that, out of the four guys involved in that issue (A-MAN, Rhino, Luti and MangaD), at least one is mafia. I just can't believe that they're all citizens... so I decided to vote for one of them.

If you read my comments in the first spoiler, you probably know that I found a lot of the things that Rhino said, to be true (confirmed by A-MAN's plotwist-post). While I don't say that he's a citizen, I believe he was randomly dragged into this mess, and thus I won't vote against him for now.

Out of the remaining three, everyone is really suspicious. To make it short:
*A-MAN: Lying about Rhino for (imo) no reason. I still don't understand why he did this. I mean, he could have got clues out of threat PM without lying about who sent it.
*MangaD: Faking a PM out of the blue is not something I expected from him. He said that he wanted to discredit A-MAN's screenshot, but why didn't he say so in the same post?
*Luti: Whether he sent the threat PM or not, I see no reason for him to avoid voting against A-MAN. Apart from that, I can't guess why he does what he does... and that bothers me. But if A-MAN turns out to be innocent, that would confirm that Luti did send the threat PM.

I'm gonna vote for the one whose death can give me as much clues as possible. The strongest connections I see right now are: A-MAN and Rhino / A-MAN and LutiChris / Rhino and LutiChris / A-MAN and MangaD.

So I'm voting A-MAN.

[Hellblazer]

Too much sh*t going on right now. Everyone has too many solid reasons that i can't trust anyone. No Vote it is then.

Also, i was away yesterday if you noticed and might be for some more following days, but atleast ill try to post daily.

[LutiChris]

I don't get it, why don't you accuse A-MAN? He claims you threatened him o.o
Also, it's not very wise to ask the sheriff to show himself so soon...

I don't see why I have to vote on him when everyone else is pretty much gonna go and gang up on him. I don't hold grievances when people accuse me. A-Man will for suuure since i sent him that pm lol... just kidding i didn't actually hahaha.
Anyways Sheriff can continue their investigation and tell us later on mid-game. Telling us he's the Sheriff obviously this early in the game will not do us and him any good. I just wanted him (whoever he is) to know that this is an option available to him and i'm alright if he feels inclined to probe in my direction. Even though i think its a waste of time thats only because i know i'm a villager and some people still suspect me endangering the rest of the group. So with that in mind, i could care less if he does an investigation on me just to show everyone my innocence.

Apart from that, I can't guess why he does what he does... and that bothers me.

This isn't something new. If you find my actions to be unpredictable then i would understand why this would bother anyone. All of us like to see patterns so its easier for us to figure out whats going on. However, we're not the same person we were 10 hours ago, 10 months ago, and 10 years ago. Most of us should evolve our tactics and change our way of handling situations based on our previous engagements with other users, and receiving new roles that we get. I dunno, maybe since i'm human i'm bound to have many flaws that i sometimes don't pick up on or if i do wouldn't understand anyways. Maybe since we don't approach it the same way maybe... thats whats really bothering you?

[Rhino.Freak]

A-Man will for suuure since i sent him that pm lol... just kidding i didn't actually hahaha.

I would have believed that you were merely trolling and having fun if you would have accepted that you did infact send the pm.
But since you did not, I have my reasons to carry on with this thing.

Sometime before the whole accusation of fake pm thing started, A-man accidently slipped this thing while chatting with me..

Spoiler (Click to View)

You may say A-man planned to ditch Luti all along, but I don't believe he would be pulling some this big planning, which didn't even end up being all believable.

That is exactly the reason why I suspected you when A-man posted the screenshot first (and a few other hints).
If you're just doing this for LOLs you didn't have to deny it at this time, A-man is getting major accusations anyway and no one is suspecting you.

Ofcourse that doesn't make A-man all innocent, he lied, tried to trap me and at this point has lost all credibility.. he may very well still be a thug or something and he may very well be the one who gets lynched this day, I had to put this post in place right now when the discussion on this matter is going on.

I lynch Lutichris now, instead of A-man.

[LutiChris]

if you would have accepted that you did infact send the pm.
But since you did not, I have my reasons to carry on with this thing.

Carry on if you must but i did not send him a pm, and it wouldn't have mattered anyways. There's no point in bringing up a message when it was faked all along. Even mfc was ignored when he did that. Wonder why no one took him seriously anyways that's beside the point. A-Man wanted to draw attention to himself. I am still unclear as to why, even after he accused me i'm reluctant to vote for him. I am on the fence about him being either mafia or townie. As I've mentioned we, even though we could afford to lose a townie just to know if he is one its best not to. Even though he caused quite a stir and we were there to take the bait i don't see why we should lynch anyone this first round. a little over 50% chance that he's innocent. Since everyone is so inclined to lynch their way I would draw attention to those that follow the herd.

A-man accidently slipped this thing while chatting with me..

I don't see how that's an accident? nothing he really says about this is of importance. If you think he'll be decisive in his answer whether it be yes or no doesn't really tell you a whole lot. Why would it have mattered either way if he wasn't even too sure about it himself? would you have come up with the same conclusion as to this must have been a slip waiting to happen? Refraining to tell you anything obviously would be suspicious in nature. In your mind => what is he trying to hide? but that's just baloney.

That is exactly the reason why I suspected you when A-man posted the screenshot first (and a few other hints).

And you believe him of all people? He's acting in this manner because he couldn't get his way and furthermore wants to drag me and you with him. None of the screenshots worked to his favor, and because you acted appropriately you've been given the slip by a few members such as apoc.

If you're just doing this for LOLs you didn't have to deny it at this time, A-man is getting major accusations anyway and no one is suspecting you.

That's not entirely honest of you. I am most certainly up there in the suspect list now that you want to lynch me and Apoc also has his reasons.. Even though i'm not getting majorily accused, i am most certainly on people's minds because i chose to act in an unusual manner. Does this make me mafia? no. Does this make me foolish.. probably.. and thus rightfully a suspect.

Are you guys fine getting rid of a possible ally even if they behaved in a distasteful manner? We're losing one guy. Is his death more valuable to us or to the mafia? All im accounting for is the probability and i wouldn't like to take that chance not that i've been any helpful or decisive myself on this matter.

[A-Man]

@Apocalipsis: Yay, someone noticed. I think with this, it becomes obvious that I've been going for Luti all along. My words, apart from the part where I falsely accused Rhino of sending the PM, were never precise. When I said that "Rhino and Luti aren't of the same team", while in the shallow context does indict Rhino of being a Mafia, indicts LutiChris himself when things come to light. I've intentionally tried to push Luti, in this thread and outside the thread, into admitting it, but he wouldn't. Lying deliberately and sticking to it with no reason does indeed make one suspicious. It makes him suspicious when you consider he's a mafia because telling the truth at this point might be giving in his life and even having everyone who supported him be considered potential suspects later on.

It's clear I could've lived this round if I stayed quiet, but in case LutiChris turned out to be really a mafia, and while Rhino was still on the hook, knowing that he was on my radar, he would've killed me to keep the convenient situation as it is.

As for why I picked Rhino of all people (though I gotta say I was so close from choosing you), then here are my reasons:
-I considered it a test to check whether Rhino is a mafia or not (and he's not. His reaction was honest and very straight forward to be a mafia).
-I knew he was going to fight back, and that he was going to cause the stir; perfect time for people to slip and give us more info on everyone's positions.
-I wanted to see and study Luti's reaction.

You may say what I started only resulted in a hodgepodge, but I am sure it's revealed very important leads as well which civilians may benefit from during the game.

@LutiChris: I am frankly surprised you're so quiet and evasive. Did you not say a couple of pages before that you like drama? I mean, back then you were full of:

Even if he were to post the pm's we wouldn't be sure if he actually wrote them or not. well its better than nothing. I'm totally for it!

@v: What if this sinful act was just the lie?