RaMafia (round 1 - end)

[MangaD]

empirefantasy

Special future prediction powers (Click to View)

1. A-Man - Mafia
2. Rhino - Citizen
3. prince - Sheriff
4. STM - Thug
5. Hellblazer - Citizen
6. MnM - Citizen
7. Luti - Citizen
8. MangaD - Mafia
9. mfc - Doctor
10. Amadis - Citizen
11. Jernemies - Thug
12. Apocalipsis - Citizen
13. empirefantasy - Mafia -- First target

Even though you pulled that list from your a** (Déjà vu), I have to give credit to your voting. @empirefantasy just got 4 votes to be Mayor. How can someone get trusted that much in the 1st day when the town is all divided? My guess is that he is Mafia and got voted by the other Mafia. HOWEVER, he could not be Mafia and have been voted by the real Mafia as a way to put suspicions on him. For this reason, I have more reasons to lynch someone that voted on him than him himself.

Also, it's important that we all stay focused on one person so that we don't lose a round lynching no one like it happened in last games. For citizens especially, whom are already in a disadvantage, it gets worse if no one is lynched.

That is bs. Last game guess who suggested the no-lynch? The cop. Guess who found a Mafia on the next night? The cop. The only reason he got killed on that night is because his reasoning during the day was too much cop-sided. I could smell his cop uniform from miles away.

Right now there is little basis to start accusing someone for real. The town-mafia ratio is 8-4 (counting the thug), the chances of lynching someone innocent are way higher. So no-lynching is the wisest thing to do. It is what I would like to say. But no, I cannot let pass someone who appeals for death so early in the game (like I-mafia did last game).

Since amadis is inactive I say we better lynch him. I vote for Amadis to be lynched

You vote to lynch someone so early in the game simply due to inactivity? Bad @MnM. Just a day phase of inactivity seems too harsh of a reason to lynch someone.

(A-Man x Rhino.Freak) one is telling the truth, but which one? i'm still not sure though so not going to lynch any of these two (for now)

I am also inclined to believe one of them is Mafia (and much more inclined to A-Man right now). So lynching one of them is a way to find out which one is Mafia and which one is not, right?

A real mafia would never send threatening PMs...

and how would you know what a real mafia would do?! oh wait..

Well it is kind of common sense...

(MangaD)
was focused on trying to prove STM is mafia, you could both be teammates and going with the "accuse each other" thing and use the "its too early for mafia to endanger each other" excuse to back it up.. STM did vote you for mayor after all "keep your enemies closer" yeah right...

Why would a Mafia want to lynch his teammate on the first day? Also you may notice that my arguments against him were strong and are still undisputed (STM's defence was weak imo). Also STM did not accuse me using any valid arguments, rather just a baseless accusation to contest mine. Him voting in me for mayor seems like a way to "should I go down, you go down with me".

then comes the fake/real threat pm discussion and you were so quick to join, i remember you kept mentioning in irc that day how you faked a pm on purpose just to show us it not a difficult job.

[12:19]<Pf> okay we got it
[12:19]<Pf> why do you need to mention it again and again
[12:19]<Pf> ...
[12:19]<Pf> hear that?
[12:20]<Pf> silence

and you kept quiet for the rest of the time i was there.. funny STM provided me this from his messengers chat log (i don't use one) but Hellblazer was there that day too, and he also uses a messenger and can back this up.

As I said before, I am not hiding anything. The chat log was:

Spoiler (Click to View)

&lt;MangaD> I did not photoshop anything though
&lt;Hellblazer__> ins ele
&lt;Hellblazer__> best way to do it
&lt;Hellblazer__> although i was surprised a-man saw the website thingy xD you shoudlve removed it
&lt;Hellblazer__> shouldve*
&lt;Pf> Aman brought chaos
&lt;Hellblazer__> yes. but dramatic shiggles chaos
&lt;Hellblazer__> <3
&lt;MangaD> I was just trolling with that screenshot really xD
&lt;Pf> okay we got it
&lt;Pf> why do you need to mention it again and again
&lt;Pf> ...
&lt;Hellblazer__>
&lt;Pf> hear that?
&lt;Pf> silence
&lt;Hellblazer__> or should we do it the other way
&lt;Hellblazer__> 'Spit. It. Out.'

And yes, Hellblazer is right on my method to forge that PM. Why I did not answer you? Simply because I was playing a game and had nothing to reply to you. Is "trying to make my point clear" not clear enough? I was just answering the Hellblazer saying "you should have removed it". I was not really into it so that slipped.

So let me recapitulate:
- you vote on @empirefantasy for Mayor, who wins with 4 votes (coincidence?);
- you insist on me being Mafia and keep pressuring;
- you, like A-Man and MnM, vote to lynch on someone the 1st day with baseless arguments.

I know you remember our strategy the 1st game to not lynch TheNave, but rather keep him alive as a scapegoat, so people would wonder why wasn't he killed already by the Mafia, due to his dangerous nature. Seems like you're trying to do the same with me.
(Though it is really better if you get rid of me asap)

APART FROM ONE THING. As prince freeza have deduced, Rhino did NOT send the PM.

Wow, you took so long to admit it. So, you suspect me for forging a PM with the intention of discrediting yours, which I did not make clear right away just to see your reactions, but even before you reacted I had already hinted it was a fake. And now I guess you expect me to not suspect you, who forged a PM against a random member and kept it as a lie for a whole day phase?

And now you blame Luti, who you insist to have helped you. "If I'm going down you're going down with me"
I wonder how you and Luti even got in contact in the first place... Oh wait, Luti said:

As stated before i did not send out pm's to anybody. and i especially do not want to this early in the game.

Voting A-Man.

[mfc]

Sending threatening pms or not, It doesnt make difference in big picture. A citizen could send it too, just for the lulz.
So, from this, rhino could be a citizen, killing him makes no sense.

A wise man here once said:

That is a pointless statement everyone knows nothing is 100% guaranteed when it comes to this game.

(except for the sheriff maybe)

Oh please, yes, it is true that nothing is 100% guaranteed when it comes to this game. But it is not a pointless statement. If you know it to be true, then act accordingly.

But yes, you can't know who is a mafia for certain. You just follow the leads which convince you the most. For sending the threatening PM, he could be a mafia, so he becomes a prime suspect. Basic logic.

Your basic logic has a war elephant big flaw before even beginning: following the leads that have no proof behind them. Anyone can send any pm to everyone, and you cant take anything seriously.

Also, it's important that we all stay focused on one person so that we don't lose a round lynching no one like it happened in last games. For citizens especially, whom are already in a disadvantage, it gets worse if no one is lynched.

Aman is mafia and wants to get rid of citizens 1 by 1 with no proof behind, starting with rhino, who just was messing with others. As if killing them in night isn't enough, he is utilizing daytime for bloodshed too bla bla

Plot twist
All I have said so far is truth (or not intentional lies or false accusations), APART FROM ONE THING. As prince freeza have deduced, Rhino did NOT send the PM. The whole idea was just messing with Rhino. As Rhino concluded, the PM was forged by the help of a skilled asset.

>That is a pointless statement everyone knows nothing is 100% guaranteed when it comes to this game.
>All I have said so far is truth

mfw (Click to View)

A-Man Accusing Luti (Click to View)

However, a threatening PM was really sent to me. With the same content of the fabricated piece. It was sent by none other than, the master mind of all evil, LutiChris. His evil intent was obvious, from the second I felt he mistook me for a thug. In addition to the support he gave me, and the applauds I received from him to my inbox, Luti's morbid intents seem to have manifested themselves in his posts multiple times:
-When I said I was going to post a screenshot of the PM, before actually posting it:

Even if he were to post the pm's we wouldn't be sure if he actually wrote them or not. well its better than nothing. I'm totally for it!

"I switch this to defense position" ~ Yugi The Destiny.
Being defensive.

Then he asked me when I posted the screenshot in a spoiler, because he can't open the spoilers in his weird internet browsing environment:

A-Man can you take down the spoiler?

Anticipation. Waiting for a possible attack which would prove whether I am siding him or not.

As much as that made me laugh,

and http://prntscr.com/9n4mq0
Clear signs of relief!

Couldn't have been clearer. They're the signs of a guilty person.

I edit unnecessary commentary or only directed to ones that are looking at the thread momentarily.

Aka provoking comments.

anyways don't defend me, i'm a big boy now! I can take care of myself. Are you trying to make it seem like we're cool buddies? At this point i don't know who sent what or if this whole thing A-Man concocted was even legitimate.

"Yes, A-Man, please, you're being too obvious"... No, you know it all.

Let me quote myself from before:

I know one thing for certain, Rhino and LutiChris ARE NOT of the same group.

If you trust me, then you can trust Rhino.Freaky is definitely not a mafia. A citizen, or a thug at most.


@LutiChris told @Hellblazer:

by weak position i mean that, if you accused anyone with that same statement they can easily overcome it by defending themselves instead of what you called "directly or indirectly" avoiding trouble. Its not my fault you can't decide based on my reasons. As stated before i did not send out pm's to anybody. and i especially do not want to this early in the game. If that isn't sufficient and clear enough for you and you're still confused .. i don't know how to help you.

You sent PMs to somebody, and you supported PM sending mess. Hellblazer was surprisingly correct; you're the threatening-PMs mastermind.


With all that being said, allow me to change my vote. I am voting LutiChris to be lynched. And in the cruelest way possible.


I think we're not the only ones who now know.

Basing opinions on all sorts of can2t be taken seriously stuff, accusing accordingly as if it has some consistent sense. Luti could be mafia and do all that stuff to pleasure himself. Luti could be citizen, could do all those too just to pleasure himself. Bringing color and fun to the game shouldn't really affect your clear decision making abilities.

You choosing rhinofreak is no logical than me choosing empirefantasy. Both are random. (Is mine random? Who knows)

I am afraid mine wasn't as random, and as a civilian who wants to protect his village/country/empire/whatever, I demand you come up with a reasonable act.

Monks do not reason. Monks only persuade and convert. All your reasoning is based on Luti having fun.

FAQ Answered (Click to View)

Q-But Luti could've been doing it for fun or "for the lulz", couldn't he?
A-We're all playing this game for the fun or the "lulz" too.
MFC-Thus you can't take anything seriously and base stuff over it.

Q-But maybe you're the mafia! Right?
A-I will just say I am not. But you're free to think otherwise as long as you come up with a reason.
MFC-Reasons sometimes have to be kept under the carpet.

Q-But you lied before, why should I trust you now?
A-It's up to you, really. If you think I've made sense, then vote LutiChris. If not, then feel free to choose to lynch me or anyone else.
MFC-Even the most trustable person can sometimes say lies. This is why you don't trust anyone.

Q-Are you sure LutiChris is a Mafia or one siding them?
A-No, no one is sure. This is just an educated guess, like any other statement in this thread. A wise man once said:

That is a pointless statement everyone knows nothing is 100% guaranteed when it comes to this game. Aside from Ramond having the last word.

MFC-Oh this. I have answered this quote 2 times already, won't bother anymore.

Unlynch empirefantasy, lynch A-Man. He is in the list anyways, whoever has the most votes on is more likely to be executed.

---

Special future prediction powers (Click to View)

1. A-Man - Mafia
2. Rhino - Citizen
3. prince - Sheriff
4. STM - Thug
5. Hellblazer - Citizen
6. MnM - Citizen
7. Luti - Citizen
8. MangaD - Mafia
9. mfc - Doctor
10. Amadis - Citizen
11. Jernemies - Thug
12. Apocalipsis - Citizen
13. empirefantasy - Mafia -- First target

Even though you pulled that list from your a** (Déjà vu)

Prophecies do not come from people's buttocks. Such messages typically involve divine inspiration, interpretation, or revelation of events to come.

[empirefantasy]

- you, like A-Man and MnM, vote to lynch on someone the 1st day with baseless arguments.

mfc also bolded my name too :P he didint said anything else.


well i still will wait for my vote, cant decide yet in this so much confusing game

[A-Man]

Wow, you took so long to admit it. So, you suspect me for forging a PM with the intention of discrediting yours, which I did not make clear right away just to see your reactions, but even before you reacted I had already hinted it was a fake. And now I guess you expect me to not suspect you, who forged a PM against a random member and kept it as a lie for a whole day phase?

It's never too late, and what makes the whole difference is that I admitted before I was caught. Your case and my case are waay different, for you were caught red handed. I am either too stupid to have understood your "hint", or that's some lame excuse you came up with on the fly.

You can't escape it.

That is bs. Last game guess who suggested the no-lynch? The cop. Guess who found a Mafia on the next night? The cop. The only reason he got killed on that night is because his reasoning during the day was too much cop-sided. I could smell his cop uniform from miles away.

Right now there is little basis to start accusing someone for real. The town-mafia ratio is 8-4 (counting the thug), the chances of lynching someone innocent are way higher. So no-lynching is the wisest thing to do. It is what I would like to say. But no, I cannot let pass someone who appeals for death so early in the game (like I-mafia did last game).

4/12 = 1/3 is the chance we lynch someone right. If we don't lynch anyone, next round when the mafia kill someone, it becomes either 4/11 or 3/11 depending on whether it was a thug or not. Then comes our lynching phase, with the chance becoming 4/11 if the mafia killed a citizen or 3/11 if they killed a thug which is not very different from what we had earlier. The probability distributes so much that I doubt there is much significance in lynching first round or later (one can try writing a script which simulates the game and write down the results). What I can intuitively tell is that the chances the mafia kill us is much higher if we just calculate with numbers.

I am also inclined to believe one of them is Mafia (and much more inclined to A-Man right now). So lynching one of them is a way to find out which one is Mafia and which one is not, right?

And a great way to screw up the civilians chances if these 2 turn out to be citizens.

Your basic logic has a war elephant big flaw before even beginning: following the leads that have no proof behind them. Anyone can send any pm to everyone, and you cant take anything seriously.

Proofs seldom pop up without searching for them. I can take everything seriously. Nobody listens to you in court when you say you weren't serious when you threatened a culprit of murder by death before.

Monks do not reason. Monks only persuade and convert. All your reasoning is based on Luti having fun.

Reread the FAQ, Q1 specifically.

Basing opinions on all sorts of can2t be taken seriously stuff, accusing accordingly as if it has some consistent sense. Luti could be mafia and do all that stuff to pleasure himself. Luti could be citizen, could do all those too just to pleasure himself. Bringing color and fun to the game shouldn't really affect your clear decision making abilities.

Could be, could be, could be. But it may be that it couldn't be too.

Answers to mfc's FAQ Answers (Click to View)

Q-But Luti could've been doing it for fun or "for the lulz", couldn't he?
A-We're all playing this game for the fun or the "lulz" too.
MFC-Thus you can't take anything seriously and base stuff over it.
A-Or you can take everything seriously and base everything over it. That's what I am doing.

Q-But maybe you're the mafia! Right?
A-I will just say I am not. But you're free to think otherwise as long as you come up with a reason.
MFC-Reasons sometimes have to be kept under the carpet.
A-Yes, when they don't make sense.

Q-But you lied before, why should I trust you now?
A-It's up to you, really. If you think I've made sense, then vote LutiChris. If not, then feel free to choose to lynch me or anyone else.
MFC-Even the most trustable person can sometimes say lies. This is why you don't trust anyone.
A-Unless I am foolish enough to trust someone completely. Personally, I like to keep it at 99.9%.

Q-Are you sure LutiChris is a Mafia or one siding them?
A-No, no one is sure. This is just an educated guess, like any other statement in this thread. A wise man once said:

That is a pointless statement everyone knows nothing is 100% guaranteed when it comes to this game. Aside from Ramond having the last word.

MFC-Oh this. I have answered this quote 2 times already, won't bother anymore.
A-You didn't answer anything. You just referenced it for yourself to show that you don't trust what I say.

[MnM]

- you, like A-Man and MnM, vote to lynch on someone the 1st day with baseless arguments.

FYI all arguments are baseless until someone slips . you cannot make bricks without clays and all the arguments here are pointless. I think we all should stop talking and start acting.

[Rhino.Freak]

^ I have to agree with that quote. It's a game. Someone we don't know killed someone without leaving any clue. We don't have a solid reason to vote someone just yet, but we can't simply deny anything at all.
Calling someone's reason to vote for someone "baseless" is pretty obvious and not worth mentioning.

I'll be waiting for Luti to poSt before doing any proper reply here.

[LutiChris]

I will not be lynching as we need more information from the cop before doing anything.
lynching will only make us lose citizens which will help mafia members. its very unlikely for us to hit a mafia members this early in the game.

At this point anymore accusations about the pm message, i'm just going to ignore. Any cop who is willing can check on my status but that would be a waste of their time.

[MangaD]

Your case and my case are waay different, for you were caught red handed.

Enlighten me.

4/12 = 1/3 is the chance we lynch someone right. If we don't lynch anyone, next round when the mafia kill someone, it becomes either 4/11 or 3/11 depending on whether it was a thug or not.

And if we lynch a citizen (8/12 - likely) and the Mafia kill a citizen next (5/7 - excluding doc and thug - also likely), the mafia-townie ratio becomes 4-6, giving the Mafia huge advantage.

And a great way to screw up the civilians chances if these 2 turn out to be citizens.

Then you are the only one to blame for making such stupid moves, making the Mafia a favour for attracting all the attention towards yourself. What need is there to fake a PM and make it look so convincing for so long? And now that you realized your PM was discredited and has little influence, you got afraid and decided not only to admit it was a fake, before someone else did, as also try to put all the blame on Luti.

You can't really blame me for 'getting caught' before making it clear my PM was a fake, since you literally noticed it was fake within 14 minutes after I posted it. Way before I had a chance to see more people's reactions.

So first you attack Rhino with forgery, then you attack me as soon as you noticed something was off, and now you attack Luti. I just received a "threat" PM from mfc, I'm not even going to bother posting the evidence, because:

1. Screenshots of PM's are no real evidence, as we all know they can be forged (apparently you didn't?);
2. mfc PM might just be a troll attempt, maybe to see how I react to it, or for him just to have fun;
3. You can't assume someone is Mafia for sending a "threat" PM. Why would a Mafia endanger himself that way in the first place?

I'm sorry A-Man, but even if you are innocent, you are not helping the town, like, at all. So u gtg. :P

[A-Man]

Did a fast simulation (script link) and repeated the game 10000 times with straightforward 'AI' that doesn't rely on strategy at all (like mafias wouldn't vote to lynch each other, and citizens vote would randomly vote for anyone other than themselves), and here are the results:

There seems to be no correlation when strategy is absent; just a waste of time. I think the game should be going though.

I will not be lynching as we need more information from the cop before doing anything.
lynching will only make us lose citizens which will help mafia members. its very unlikely for us to hit a mafia members this early in the game.

At this point anymore accusations about the pm message, i'm just going to ignore. Any cop who is willing can check on my status but that would be a waste of their time.

Really? You're not fighting back? Not fun :\

[mfc]

>Send everyone threat pms
>Nobody gives a s**t